What was the mafia doing in the CC to begin with,? How could they be considered New Testament Christians? anyone?

This is a question that actually has the answer built right into it, but I hope it will make people think.

Are you thinking? What are you thinking?

Well, ‘the Mafia’ is not ‘in the Catholic Church’.

Individual people who happen to be baptized Catholics and either practicing or not, also happen to be members of the Mafia.

So? Individual Catholics are members of all sorts of things outside the Church --they are members of the Republican, Democrat, Green, Libertarian, etc parties in the U.S. They are members of groups like the Lions, or the Elks, or the JC, the American Legion. . .

They are members of all sorts of groups. Most are decent, some are iffy, and some are downright bad. . .

A better question might be, "How does a person who is a member of the Mafia and also a Catholic reconcile his or her actions in the Mafia with what he or she is supposed to practice as a Catholic, when the two conflict?’

Is the question, why are there sinners in the Catholic Church? There are always sinners.

In the movies, they are large donors to the CC. I would be surprised if this were not the case in “real” life. The purgatory Hilton does not accept cash. There is a place that probably does though.

The Presbyterian Church supports Abortion. There are sinners in all faiths.

The yakuza are generally shintoists.
Russian mobsters are likely to be Eastern Orthodox.
Chinese triads could have a fair mix of Buddhists, Taoists, Confucianists etc.

Oh and of course, how can you forget the religion that is lamentably associated with terror threats? :wink:

Honestly, if every religion was defined by the world’s stereotypical crime syndicates then we’re all lawbreakers. :rolleyes:

Since most Italians are Catholic then most Mafiosi are also Catholic. Nobody said they were in good standing with the church, they are just members because their parents made them Catholic. I also read that they were using the Vatican bank to launder money. Again, there were people in the Vatican who were not exactly practicing their faith very well. Now they are not in good standing because the Pope excommunicated them. From their point of view practicing their religion and doing “business” are two separate things. Can you imagine how scary it is for their confessors? They know things they can’t talk about. Talk about stress!

The Pope did not do this at all. He merely pointed out that they are already not in good standing.

Vatican spokesman Father Ciro Benedettini said the pope’s stern words did not constitute a formal over-arching decree of canon (church) law regarding excommunication, which is a formal legal process.

Rather, he said it was more of a direct message to members of organised crime that they had effectively excommunicated themselves, reminding them that they could not participate in church sacraments or other activities because they had distanced themselves from God through their criminal actions.

Since most Italians are Catholic then most Mafiosi are also Catholic. Nobody said they were in good standing with the church, they are just members because their parents made them Catholic. I also read that they were using the Vatican bank to launder money. Again, there are people in the Vatican bank who were not exactly practicing their faith very well. Now the Mafia, in southern Italy at least, is not in good standing because the Pope excommunicated them. From their point of view practicing their religion and doing “business” are two separate things. Can you imagine how scary it is for their confessors? They know things they can’t talk about. Talk about stress!

I do not quite understand excommunication in light of the fact that the Church was meant for ‘sinners.’

LOVE! :heart:

Excommunication just means that they cannot receive any of the sacraments until they are reconciled with the church through repentance and the sacrament of confession–the one sacrament that remains open to them.

hmm, the most stressful part for the priest would be thinking about whether the guy confessing believed in the priests’ silence on the matter. what if the guy got paranoid after he confessed…?(he knows where the priest lives)

Simple. Because someone baptized these people when they were babies in the Catholic church.

.

This points to another discussion or two I have had previously where I tried to differentiate between baby baptism, and adult new creation in Christ Jesus and commitment to God.

A New Testament Christian back after Jesus’ death could not be part of the NT church
if they were living a mafia lifestyle, through criminal activity. The apostles would see to it, by a system of warnings, where the person would eventually be turned over to satan to actually kill them physically,…called ‘the destruction of the flesh’.(or it could have meant sickness, not killing them.

People living a lifestyle of sin, were checked, warned and then they turned them over to the devil, as a last resort.

The point I was trying to make is that a person living a mafia life is coming ‘into the church building’, but they themselves are not actually ‘the church’. God said we would be His temple, and that He would no longer live in houses of stone or brick.

If God originally came into a mafia family baby at baptism, He would warn the mafia person through troubling their conscience, and if the person did not go along God’s way, eventually God would move out of that individual’s house.

There is a difference between someone who already is in the mafia and them becoming born again,…new creation in Christ Jesus, and then them continuing as an adult to live that lifestyle all their lives,…this is not in keeping with Jesus, and yes they could go to confession, but they would have to repent, as well, and repentance includes making the changes necessary, at least in ones aim.

Adults cannot leave mafia and stay alive, I don’t think, that is one of their rules.

Or maybe they would leave them alone if ‘they got religion’,…equivalent to
becoming kind of ‘loco’ in some people’s minds.

‘the Church was meant for sinners’, but the church is made of sinners who have repented of ungodly living, and are living lifestyles of holiness, although not all at once.

It a mafia person came to Christ they would not be able to continue to practice a mafia lifestyle.

I thank you guys. I understand now.

LOVE! :heart:

A system of warnings… like excommunication?

Have you ever attended a catholic baptism? You seem to be missing some of the differences between a catholic and protestant baptism. In a catholic baptism, the family (and, ideally, the community) swear to rear the child according to the statutes of God and to be examples to the child.

It seems like you’re saying that God would leave an entire family over the actions of a few members. I don’t think I’m understanding you correctly, can you put it a different way?

Ummm, this is nonsense.

The Apostles never turned anyone over to Satan to be killed. God never abandons anyone; people abandon God. God is always available to people who repent, even on their literal death bed.

Please don’t spread these untruths.

God Bless

This is one of the most judgemental posts I have read. I am not sure what gives you the right to judge where someone is on their spiritual journey.

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