What Was The Real Sin In The Garden


#1

Did Adam and Eve eat the wrong apple, and cause death and suffering to be entered into the world for every subsequent soul on this earth, from that time in the Garden of Eden forward until the end of times?

Absurd as this may sound, it is what most Christians are taught from their respective Church systems (Denominations and Faiths). Let’s first look at it from their skewed perspective, then we will learn the truth from our Father’s Word; The Bible.

They (our religious leaders in the Churches, Temples, and Synagogues of today) would have us to believe that Almighty God would be so petty as to punish some twelve billion souls, because two of them were insubordinate in their selection of produce. Yet they don’t teach us why this would so infuriate such a kind, loving, and forgiving God; and kindle His wrath to such a magnitude that He would allow death to enter in for all of mankind.

They can’t answer why God would do that, because there is no answer for what did not happen, their facts are wrong from page one. And if you start out on any quest of any knowledge, whether the knowledge be of everyday issues or the knowledge be of the Divine and perfect plan of Almighty God; you must start out at a sound genesis (beginning) or you can never hope to end at a sound terminus (conclusion).

To learn what really happened,let me suggest this study

biblestudysite.com/realsin.htm


#2

I would highly recommend you study what the Catholic Church has taught for over 2000 years!


#3

Some say it was pride, others say it was gluttony.


#4

The article suggests the original sin is sex. Which is utter rubbish. God’s first command to Adam and Eve was to be fruitful and multiply - sex was always part of His good plan for them and us, if used licitly. And certainly no sin for them, quite the opposite.

How did the serpent tempt them? ‘You will be like gods, knowing good and evil’. Sounds like envy - envy of the knowledge and power that God had, and wanting it for themselves. And perhaps pride as well - thinking that they knew better than God Himself who created them what was good for them.

But I think we can see in the idea of ‘knowing good and evil’ that the Original Sin of the garden was most likely a compendium of all the sins rather than one single sin - or at least all the deadly sins, which are the source of all other sin.

Kind of like the Greek myth of Pandora who, when she opened the forbidden box, released all the evils of the world, not just one.


#5

Serpent Seed?


#6

Bunk - how could Adam possibly be complicit in Eve’s sin if she was the one who had sex with the serpent? Clearly, as I’ve shown above, Adam didn’t sin in having sex with Eve. :shrug:


#7

Selection of produce? Oh, come on!

I have read your “bible study” – and many other pages on the site. While it is refreshing to find a “non-denominational” ecclesial communion that has not fallen into the pre-trib or mid-trib rapture nonsense, I find much much that is untrustworthy on the site. (e.g., KJV-only-ism)

There are treatments of this matter that are far, far superior to this one. I offer for one the Covenant Theology as summarized in Scott Hahn’s A Father Who Keeps His Promises: God’s Covenant Love in Scripture. It takes the biblical text seriously, and interprets it sanely.

It may not be the only possible interpretation, but it beats the socks offa the one that site provides!

I just couldn’t resist quoting this one. It helps to point out the straw man approach that this site takes up. Good luck with that… the approach is easily recognized, and once seen, it makes all the rest of the argument weaker, because we have seen the cheap methods to which the arguer has resorted.

Regards,
Joe


#8

In order to see that which most can’t,you need to understand why satan did this.

Satan knew God’s plan, that the Christ would come through the womb of Eve, and Satan was out to destroy that plan of God’s. Satan wanted to destroy the seed of the woman, meaning “Christ”. Satan tried to see to it that the lineage of Christ would become polluted, and that the promised Messiah would be unable to give Himself for the perfect sacrifice, so that men and women could be brought back to the Father, our God.

This was his first attempt,his second was in Gen 6,but those who don’t have eyes to see will tell me that these angels were mere men.

Genesis 6:1 “And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,”

Genesis 6:2 “That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.”

The “sons of God” are angelic beings, or angels, and their offspring are called “the Nephilim”. These angelic beings, or angels saw the daughters of men were beautiful. These are the fallen angels of Jude 6, who followed Satan in his fall in the “world that was”, which is the first earth age. Jude 6 reads; “And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, He hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.”

Genesis 6:4 “There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”

Job 1:6
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

Job 2:1
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD.

Now if these sons of God are not angels,can someone please tell me when did satan hang out with men,now lets go to the first prophecy in the Bible

Genesis 3:14 "And the Lord God said unto the serpent, “Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:”

Genesis 3:15 “And I [God] will put enmity between thee [Satan] and the woman [Eve], and between thy seed [the Kenites] and her Seed [Jesus Christ]; It [Christ] shall bruise thy [Satan’s] head, and thou [Satan] shalt bruise His [Christ’s] heel.”

Eve’s seed is our Lord Jesus Christ. While Satan’s seed are the children, to the last generation, called the Kenites. Those offspring are born from the sexual union between Eve and Satan [the serpent, and the tree of good and evil]. God is telling us that He will put trouble between Eve’s children [through Adam and Seth], and Satan’s offspring through Cain, called the Kenites.

Most “men of God” acknowledge that Genesis 3:15 is talking about the death of Jesus Christ, when He was nailed to the cross for our sins. They recognize that “seed” is referring to the children of the woman “Eve”, yet somehow they just want to spiritualize everything else that happened in the Garden of Eden between Eve and the two men [Satan and Adam]. The “seed” in the Hebrew is called “zirmah”, and in the Greek it is “sperma”. We in the English call it “sperm”, and in Strongs Hebrew Dictionary # 2233; “Posterity, carnally, child, fruitful”. Friend, it can’t be any clearer. The seed of Satan’s “posterity” are the “Kenites”, while Adam’s posterity is in Christ, and of the pure bloodline through Seth.

Might not be to you,but its so simple for me

Now about this below quote

LilyM

The article suggests the original sin is sex. Which is utter rubbish. God’s first command to Adam and Eve was to be fruitful and multiply - sex was always part of His good plan for them and us, if used licitly. And certainly no sin for them, quite the opposite.

Just wanted to give you a little info

God did not tell Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply


#9

Oh goody, we’ve got a bright one here!

Genesis 1:21 - God tells the animals to be fruitful and multiply. Full stop, end of his dealings with the animals.

Genesies 1:27-29:

"God created man in His image … male and female He created them. God blessed them [male and female] saying ‘be fruitful and multiply; [to man, not the animals, he wouldn’t say this to the animals *twice, there was no need], fill the earth and subdue it [again addressed to man, animals are not and never were ordered to *subdue the earth]. Have dominion over the fish of the sea etc etc’ [clearly speaking to man, not animals, who do not have dominion over a darn thing]


#10

Don’t fall for it.

It will just give n2thelight a chance to point you to another “study” on that website. One that purports to prove that Adam was not the first human. And it sounds very scientific; after all, it uses the term “DNA” and everything.

[Note… I am not normally this sarcastic. Maybe I shouldn’t be posting at four in the morning.]

Regards,
Joe


#11

LilyM

Oh goody, we’ve got a bright one here!

Very bright,as a matter of fact

Genesis 1:21 - God tells the animals to be fruitful and multiply. Full stop, end of his dealings with the animals.

Genesies 1:27-29:

"God created man in His image … male and female He created them. God blessed them [male and female] saying ‘be fruitful and multiply; [to man, not the animals, he wouldn’t say this to the animals twice, there was no need], fill the earth and subdue it [again addressed to man, animals are not and never were ordered to subdue the earth]. Have dominion over the fish of the sea etc etc’ [clearly speaking to man, not animals, who do not have dominion over a darn thing]

This has nothing to do with the animals,it has to do with the fact that Adam nor Eve were nowhere around at this time

Genesis 1:27 “So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.”

Pay attention to this verse for if you do you will see that men and women were created at the same time.Now please tell me where’s the part where Adam goes to sleep and God takes Eve from him.It’s not there,no why,because it has not happened yet.

God did not form Adam until the next chapter

Genesis 2:2 “And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made.”

All the way up to this verse Adam has yet to be formed

Genesis 2:7 “And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”

The word “formed” is used [molded as clay] to describe the making of Adam. When man was formed he became a living creature. In the Hebrew it is “eth-ha-adham”, which refers to the particular person “Adam”, (not a generic form for man). The “Ha-Adham” [Adam] is the man that Christ will come forth through. Matthew 1:1-17, and Luke 3:23-38 both give us our documentation that this is true and did come to pass. Paul states in I Corinthians 15:21-23 that sin came into the world by the first Adam, but by the second Adam [Christ} all shall be made alive. Christ is the first fruits [to come out of the grave to everlasting life], and then “they that are Christ’s at His coming”. There was death by the first Adam, and salvation by Christ Himself.

Now,we have Adam,but where is Eve,did not the verse in Chapter 1 say they were created at the same time

Genesis 1:27 “So God created man in His own image, in the image of God created He him; male and female created He them.”

Contradiction,I think not,mankind in general was created all at the same time,not Adam.

Genesis 2:21 “And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;”

Genesis 2:22 “And the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made He a woman, and brought her unto the man.”

And now we have Eve.

Now let me help you out with the word Adam

The Hebrew word for “formed” in chapter two is yatsar, meaning to “mold” or “form” as a potter. It is not the same word as “created” in Gen. 1:26, which is bara.

(This is crucial to our understanding), the word “man” used here in chapter 2 is " 'eth-ha adham", with the article and particle, and means “this same man Adam”. It means a specific man, not mankind in general as in chapter 1.

IIf you wish to discuss this futher I responded to a post on this site you can find it here,and I will be more than happy to continue

forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=254046


#12

Of all the unconvincing drivel.

Chapter 1 simply says ‘he created male and female’. It emphatically does not say how this creation was done - it does not contain any implication that male and female were created together, or created in any fashion other than as described in Chapter 2, it does not contain any implication that any humans other than one man (Adam) and one woman (Eve) were created.

Moreover, God rested on the seventh day - after the creation of man as per Chapter 1 - because all the work of creation was utterly complete - ‘the heavens and the earth and ALL their array’. Not ‘almost all their array’ especially not ‘all but the most important part’, but ALL. Including Adam and Eve, they being the male and female humans of Chapter 1. All done, sorted, made, created. Finished. God doesn’t rest when a job is half done.

There’s no logical reason why Adam and Eve are not the male and female of Chapter 1 - certainly nothing in what you’ve said that provides a cogent argument to the contrary.

Having said which, I’m not going to continue this exchange with you. God lead you to the truth, because you sure haven’t found it yet.


#13

Just more of the Shepherd’s Chapel heresy…

What is the Shepherd’s Chapel? (Sometimes CARM is good for something…:shrug: )

More:
cultlink.com/sentinel/murray.html
letusreason.org/Poptea4.htm
watchman.org/profile/murraypro.htm

In fact he pulled a gun on a guy during a television broadcast. :eek:

As has already been shown, Murray contradicts what is plainly taught in the Word of God and in denying the Holy Trinity he removes himself and his cult from any form of Christianity.

This is “another gospel” and what does St. Paul tell us about that?

Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. 9 As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema.


#14

‘Ye shall be as gods’.
The world’s been trying to be like God ever since.
Including Arnold Murray.
:cool:


#15

God is INFINITE.

But some folks think they are smarter than God.

Some folks think their wit and creativity and their quickness makes them smarter than God.

Sort of like … someone doing a crossword puzzle thinking he (or she) is smarter than the person who made up the crossword puzzle.

We, humans, think that Einstein was simply brilliant … but Einstein was merely trying to figure out (not very successfully) a small part of the crossword puzzle created by The Infinite God.

And I think that was the sin of Adam and Eve.

God gave them ONE commandment. And it was just too much for them. They couldn’t resist!

God SURELY could not have been serious when He gave them that ONE commandment.

So they broke the ONE commandment!


#16

LilyM

Having said which, I’m not going to continue this exchange with you. God lead you to the truth, because you sure haven’t found it yet.

You dont have to continue,so let me say this,satan is coming back,real soon,and unless the Spirit leads you to the truth,I can guarantee,you will be decieved.

Think about this,where were you before you were born,or do you think you were created at the time of your conception.


#17

‘Ye shall be as gods’.

Out of your own mouth, you just proved the point.


#18

The real sin of course was disobedience. The fruit of the tree, indeed, may be allegorical.


#19

You called yourself, “very bright.” That may weel be the case, but you certainly are not intellectually honest.

You’ve avoided one issue over and over. So, let’s apply your “brightness” to this issue, shall we?

So, here’s the quote in your sig again:

“When we come to ask ourselves, “Where did I learn this?” it is astonishing to find how much we have imbibed from man, and from tradition; and not directly and for ourselves, from the Word of God.”

Of all the Scripture verses you’ve given in all your posts, not one of those verses tells us:

  • what books belong in the Bible;
  • how to dectermine which books are to be in the Bible.

Do you, or do you not, acknowledge that your knowledge and understanding as to what constitutes the Bible comes from Tradition?


#20

When I was a fundamentalist I found it very frustrating to get through to people that they need to look at the story as a WHOLE and the point behind it: how original sin began rather than reading into what they wished.
Many fundamentalists would rather try to disect the story as if it were a play by play of events on Fox News. As a result, they miss the point. They do the same with Revelation.


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