What We've Done Wrong

WE’RE WINNING THE WAR, says Victor Davis Hanson, who then offers some lessons drawn from things we’ve done right – and things we’ve done wrong.

hat tip

Gilliam,

Major hostilities were declared over in Iraq two years ago. Do you mean the war continues still???

Where are all those WMDs? Oh ya…the Bush administration admitted that there weren’t any there at all.

Is that one of the “wrongs” you mention. That the entire war was fought on false premises. When the government has credit cards though we don’t need to regret hasty mistakes, right?

[quote=liberal friend]Gilliam,

Major hostilities were declared over in Iraq two years ago. Do you mean the war continues still???

Where are all those WMDs? Oh ya…the Bush administration admitted that there weren’t any there at all.

Is that one of the “wrongs” you mention. That the entire war was fought on false premises. When the government has credit cards though we don’t need to regret hasty mistakes, right?
[/quote]

:smiley: You must have majored in Debate… :rolleyes:

[quote=aimee]:smiley: You must have majored in Debate… :rolleyes:
[/quote]

I majored in Truth. Pssssst…can you keep a secret: There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and there were no terrorists there until we got there and destabilized the country and let all the terrorists in!!!

Iraq was a secular/socialist government, and it did not traffic with radical Islam. In fact, it fought it in Iran for 8 years.

PS: Iraq was allied with us then.

“A war for an oilcan? What vanity; what crime.”

[quote=liberal friend]I majored in Truth. Pssssst…can you keep a secret: There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and there were no terrorists there until we got there and destabilized the country and let all the terrorists in!!!

Iraq was a secular/socialist government, and it did not traffic with radical Islam. In fact, it fought it in Iran for 8 years.

PS: Iraq was allied with us then.

“A war for an oilcan? What vanity; what crime.”
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Bless your heart…

BTW Gilliam,

one place Bush (both of them) went wrong was in ignoring our pope!

He knew that a war for an oilcan was the height of folly and vanity.

Again I ask you: when did your brand of liberal capitalism and imperialistic democracy replace God and your Church in your list of priorities?

[quote=aimee]Bless your heart…
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Only my heart? What about the rest of me?

[quote=liberal friend]Gilliam,

Major hostilities were declared over in Iraq two years ago. Do you mean the war continues still???

Where are all those WMDs? Oh ya…the Bush administration admitted that there weren’t any there at all.

Is that one of the “wrongs” you mention. That the entire war was fought on false premises. When the government has credit cards though we don’t need to regret hasty mistakes, right?
[/quote]

While I’m not definitely not a liberal, I agree with this poster. Not only were we unprepared for the war by not providing armor to army reservists, upgrading the humvees to have armor, and having tricare be a complete joke, we also relied on info that just plain sucked. We also don’t have enough Arab linguists thanks to the decision to go there as soon as possible.

Even the Catholic Church maintains that it was wrong to go to war with Iraq. More harm has come than good. I know you’re thinking: “Well, it’s a democracy now and people valiantly voted!” What’s going to end up happening is continuous civil strife between the Sunnis and Shitees just like there is in Africa with all the tribes. What’s worse is that Iraq may eventually end up as an Islamic state. I certainly hope that doesn’t happen.

P.S. One of your previous posts says that there’s 155,000 Iraqi troops trained. From experience, I can tell you that they are not prepared to handle what’s coming after we completely withdraw. It’s not their fault. It’s just that they don’t have the resources like we do. I absolutely love them but I fear for them.

[quote=nike248]While I’m not definitely not a liberal, I agree with this poster. Not only were we unprepared for the war by not providing armor to army reservists, upgrading the humvees to have armor, and having tricare be a complete joke, we also relied on info that just plain sucked. We also don’t have enough Arab linguists thanks to the decision to go there as soon as possible.

Even the Catholic Church maintains that it was wrong to go to war with Iraq. More harm has come than good. I know you’re thinking: “Well, it’s a democracy now and people valiantly voted!” What’s going to end up happening is continuous civil strife between the Sunnis and Shitees just like there is in Africa with all the tribes. What’s worse is that Iraq may eventually end up as an Islamic state. I certainly hope that doesn’t happen.

P.S. One of your previous posts says that there’s 155,000 Iraqi troops trained. From experience, I can tell you that they are not prepared to handle what’s coming after we completely withdraw. It’s not their fault. It’s just that they don’t have the resources like we do. I absolutely love them but I fear for them.
[/quote]

It is good to fear for them, but it is also very good to help them, now that they need it.

By the way, no one was ready for what happened after the Liberation of Iraq and no one thought we needed to armor humvees or trucks (how many Jeeps and trucks were armored in WWII and Vietnam? answer: very, very few) What is the difference? Well, for one think Saddam let 100,000 criminals loose from his prisons right before the invasion. But we adapted, not as quickly as maybe you would have liked, but we did. I guess our choice was to adapt or run away.

I am not sure what your experice is with us leaving a country to the indigionous people to police, but we did a pretty good job in Germany and Japan.

[quote=nike248]While I’m not definitely not a liberal, I agree with this poster. Not only were we unprepared for the war by not providing armor to army reservists, upgrading the humvees to have armor, and having tricare be a complete joke, we also relied on info that just plain sucked. We also don’t have enough Arab linguists thanks to the decision to go there as soon as possible.

Even the Catholic Church maintains that it was wrong to go to war with Iraq. More harm has come than good. I know you’re thinking: “Well, it’s a democracy now and people valiantly voted!” What’s going to end up happening is continuous civil strife between the Sunnis and Shitees just like there is in Africa with all the tribes. What’s worse is that Iraq may eventually end up as an Islamic state. I certainly hope that doesn’t happen.

P.S. One of your previous posts says that there’s 155,000 Iraqi troops trained. From experience, I can tell you that they are not prepared to handle what’s coming after we completely withdraw. It’s not their fault. It’s just that they don’t have the resources like we do. I absolutely love them but I fear for them.
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It was wrong to invade (esp. since there were NO WMDs) but when it was clear that Bush was going to invade to avenge his daddy I thought he would send in a 1,000,000 to 2,000,000 troops.

Only 250,000 which quickly dropped to 130,000???

TO OCCUPY A COUNTRY THE SIZE OF CALIFORNIA SURROUNDED BY ISLAMIC NATIONS FILLED WITH TERRORISTS!!!

Who knew Bush could be so silly. It’s just like LBJ in Vietnam: the politicians are running a PC war and tieing the generals hands behind their backs (although Bush denies this of course…so did LBJ)

[quote=gilliam]It is good to fear for them, but it is also very good to help them, now that they need it.

By the way, no one was ready for what happened after the Liberation of Iraq .
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What did Bush think would happen when he invaded???

And yet your pride prevents you from seeing the error of launching an invasion that one does not plan for.

Did we have to act so quickly without planning because he was about to attack with his non-existant WMDs???

You are indeed amazing in your pride and short sidedness.

[quote=gilliam]It is good to fear for them, but it is also very good to help them, now that they need it.

By the way, no one was ready for what happened after the Liberation of Iraq and no one thought we needed to armor humvees or trucks (how many Jeeps and trucks were armored in WWII and Vietnam? answer: very, very few) What is the difference? Well, for one think Saddam let 100,000 criminals loose from his prisons right before the invasion. But we adapted, not as quickly as maybe you would have liked, but we did. I guess our choice was to adapt or run away.
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Hold on. You’re trying to tell me that armoring of vehicles in war isn’t necessary? You gotta be kidding me. Also, we didn’t adapt as quickly as I liked? Yeah, tell that to my friend of 3 years who got blown to bits with an IED thanks to our unarmored humvee. His left eyeball was in my lap. Hey! But we don’t need armored vehicles, right?. Face it. You’re nothing but a civilian who knows nothing about the war in Iraq and will never know anything more than what the media tells you. I want you to go there, come back and spew off all this **** to me.

[quote=nike248]Hold on. You’re trying to tell me that armoring of vehicles in war isn’t necessary? .
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I am not sure how much military history you have in your background, but up until Iraq there was always a front line and a rear area. Most humvees (or jeeps) and supply trucks worked in the rear area where they didn’t need armoring. So no, you don’t armor vehicles you don’t need to because they are 1) slower, 2) top heavy=unstable, and 3) difficult to drive because their larger mass produces more momentum.

In my wildest dreams, I would never have thought that our government had no plan other than to show up and be greeted with cheers and flowers; what a bumbling bunch of incompetent goofs. It doesn’t really matter what happens now because our credibility is shot and we have destroyed tens of thousands of lives both here and in Iraq.

And nothing justifies a government deliberately lying to its people for war. Not only did they claim that Iraq had WMD’s, but they claimed that they were an immediate threat to us. What an absolute joke that was. I give credit because a lot of Americans saw right through the rhetoric and the propaganda. Unfortunately, it was to no avail.

You also need to realize we were coming from an military that was being directed by Clinton and he pretty much figured the Air Force would do everything and we didn’t need to fund the Army or Marines.

[quote=gilliam]I am not sure how much military history you have in your background, but up until Iraq there was always a front line and a rear area. Most humvees (or jeeps) and supply trucks worked in the rear area where they didn’t need armoring. So no, you don’t armor vehicles you don’t need to because they are 1) slower, 2) top heavy=unstable, and 3) difficult to drive because their larger mass produces more momentum.
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You’re right. God forbid we armor our vehicles, sacrifice some speed, and save some lives. Pfft… Just answer me this, truthfully. Did you actually serve in Iraq like I did?

[quote=nike248]You’re right. God forbid we armor our vehicles, sacrifice some speed, and save some lives. Pfft… Just answer me this, truthfully. Did you actually serve in Iraq like I did?
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this was already ansered on another thread.

[quote=gilliam]this was already ansered on another thread.
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So what’s your answer? Yes or no? And if so, how many casualties did your unit suffer?

[quote=nike248]So what’s your answer? Yes or no? And if so, how many casualties did your unit suffer?
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read the other thread where you posted the same question and it was answered.

[quote=liberal friend]Gilliam,

Major hostilities were declared over in Iraq two years ago. Do you mean the war continues still???

Where are all those WMDs? Oh ya…the Bush administration admitted that there weren’t any there at all.

Is that one of the “wrongs” you mention. That the entire war was fought on false premises. When the government has credit cards though we don’t need to regret hasty mistakes, right?
[/quote]

Your sarcasm is not necessary or helpful in this discussion. I don’t like the war but am undecided whether it was the wrong choice or not at the time. We will probably never know what President George W. Bush knew (or thought he knew) at the time of the invasion. Congress supported the decision so there were others that thought it was the right thing to do. I just don’t know, though. Glad it wasn’t my call.

Are you of the opinion that President George W. Bush knew there were no WMDs when war was declared? I have not seen any reliable reason to support this.

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