Whats the difference?


#1

Ok I hear alot about the Carmelite nuns in Nebraska and I hear alot of people say how true and stuff thay are to the Church only because they say the Mass in Latin well what about The Brooklyn Carmelites are they not true to the Church? whats up with that can someone help me out


#2

i can understand your confusion. In my opinion,** TLM doesn’t define if a community is true to the Catholic church**. There are communities that celebrate TLM but are sedevacantists.

Even if Brooklyn Monastery doesn’t celebrate TLM, they could be true Catholics. I think you’ve been there, and you have discerned with them.

Pray about your discernment, pray harder if you’re already praying and pray the hardest if you are praying harder for it. Ask what the Lord wants from you, not what people expects of you.

:thumbsup:


#3

[quote="carmelitegirl93, post:1, topic:204702"]
Ok I hear alot about the Carmelite nuns in Nebraska and I hear alot of people say how true and stuff thay are to the Church only because they say the Mass in Latin well what about The Brooklyn Carmelites are they not true to the Church? whats up with that can someone help me out

[/quote]

Any religious community that uses a rite that is approved by the church is true to the church, so long as they celebrate it with respect for the liturgical rules from Rome, from the bishop and/or from the head of the religious community. (Some religious institutes have permission to make certain changes to the mass in line with established customs and ancient practice).

Preference for the extraordinary form (the TLM) does not make someone 'truer' to the church: if that was so, then the church would be wrong to say that mass in everyday language was the 'ordinary form.' A form of the mass that wasn't as good as other forms would not be 'ordinary,' but would be 'worse than'.

That is not what the church teaches: it says that both types are equally valid, and also that other mass forms used by the Eastern churches that are in communion with Rome are also valid. We can like one type of mass more than another, but we cannot say that one type is 'truer' than another. To say that would be to ignore the teaching of the church, which says that the different forms are equal.

So being 'true' to the church isn't just about the form of the mass, but is also about respect for church authority: a person can't say that they think the church is wrong about the equal validity of the different masses one moment, and then immediately afterwards boast about how true to the church they are themselves. ;)

It is, of course, good that that the church encourages people to go to the type of mass that they find more helpful to them in feeling close to God. But so long as a recognised form of mass is used by a religious community, they are no more or less close to the church for that reason. Its wrong to judge others because they don't make the same choices as ourselves when the choices that they do make are entirely proper and permitted.


#4

[quote="carmelitegirl93, post:1, topic:204702"]
Ok I hear alot about the Carmelite nuns in Nebraska and I hear alot of people say how true and stuff thay are to the Church only because they say the Mass in Latin well what about The Brooklyn Carmelites are they not true to the Church? whats up with that can someone help me out

[/quote]

You're not the only one that is confused.

I get confused when I read that the Traditional Latin Mass is the true Mass/Church? :confused:

traditionalmass.org/versus/


#5

And this I think is what is happening because of these nouns or tags springing up in The Church - "traditionalist", "modernist", "orthodox", "sedevacantist" and all the rest of the new nouns or tags springing up - or even worse to my mind, the tendancy to use intitials i.e. TLM, OF, EF, SSPX and many others where perhaps often the ordinary Catholic does not understand the meaning. Some of these newer 'expressions' have a tendancy to create divisions in The Church. They also confuse perhaps many. I think it also reflects the dire need of many Catholics for adult catechesis in this our modern day to help them understand matters that can confuse and the new developments in The Church re many matters.

Certainly I think a discussion site such as this can assist in this direction, providing those who do not understand are not brushed aside but welcomed along with any and all questions, and not made to feel in anyway inadequate or condescended to in some way. I think that if a question can be formed, then it deserves a friendly answer.
Hence I think this particular thread is an important one and I am hoping CarmeliteGirl that by the time your thread concludes, that you will have a clear anwer to your question or questions. Your questions and the answers posters give to you may well help out a reader who does not post, or even a non member since this site is open for reading to the internet and the public universally. You have had some informative responses to date I thought.

Quoting ThomasEugene: "Pray about your discernment, pray harder if you're already praying and pray the hardest if you are praying harder for it. Ask what the Lord wants from you, not what people expects of you."

Well said.

TS


#6

[quote="goforgoal, post:4, topic:204702"]
You're not the only one that is confused.

I get confused when I read that the Traditional Latin Mass is the true Mass/Church? :confused:

traditionalmass.org/versus/

[/quote]

This site and the Florida seminary it refers to sound schismatic to me.

Apologists and* periti* opinions?


#7

I love this too...:)

Quoting ThomasEugene: "Pray about your discernment, pray harder if you're already praying and pray the hardest if you are praying harder for it. Ask what the Lord wants from you, not what people expects of you."


#8

[quote="1234, post:6, topic:204702"]
This site and the Florida seminary it refers to sound schismatic to me.

Apologists and* periti* opinions?

[/quote]

You are correct. The Most Holy Trinity Seminary and those affiliated with it (including Bishops - validly yet completely illicitly ordained - Sanborn and Dolan) are sedevacantists and therefore in schism. Though there may be bits of truth in that website, I would take everything they say with a huge bucket of salt.

As for the original post:

[quote="carmelitegirl93, post:1, topic:204702"]
Ok I hear alot about the Carmelite nuns in Nebraska and I hear alot of people say how true and stuff thay are to the Church only because they say the Mass in Latin well what about The Brooklyn Carmelites are they not true to the Church? whats up with that can someone help me out

[/quote]

I've visited the Carmelites in Nebraska. They are fantastic. They are true to the Church. But not because they only have Mass according to the Extraordinary Form. As has been mentioned, the Form of Mass that is preferred by an individual, group, community, etc. does not define how "true" they are to the Church.


#9

[quote="carmelitegirl93, post:1, topic:204702"]
Ok I hear alot about the Carmelite nuns in Nebraska and I hear alot of people say how true and stuff thay are to the Church only because they say the Mass in Latin well what about The Brooklyn Carmelites are they not true to the Church? whats up with that can someone help me out

[/quote]

They are both great communities and both are under the same Constitutions, discalcedcarmelites1990.blogspot.com/ (blog is not finished yet - a friend of mine started it before she entered) I wouldn't say one is more faithful than the other. They are both faithful.

Just because people talk a lot online about the Nebraska Carmel (and now Elysburg) and get excited about them having the TLM and everything, does not mean they are better. From what I've heard, the Brooklyn Carmel is wonderful - very Teresian, and three of the nuns are from the Carmel in Toledo, which was founded by St. Teresa herself. Also I have heard that they wear the wool habit in Brooklyn all year round, as the original OCD nuns did, while Valpariaso does not. Valparaiso's customs are more Mexican/Spanish, while Brooklyn is more just Spanish (I heard this from a girl who entered Elysburg, though she visited Brooklyn and had a lot of great things to say about them, but felt the Lord was calling her to Elysburg)

Don't worry about one being more popular than another. Go where the Lord wants you. :thumbsup:


#10

My apologizes to one and all for mentioning the website I didn't realize it was schismatic or/and sedevacantists. I just wanted to know why people would say that TLM is a "truer" Mass than the Mass now? :confused:

Also, thank you for the explanations.

When I visited with the Carmelite Nuns of St. Joseph in Armstrong, B.C., Canada (where/who I'm discerning with) one of the Carmelite Nuns asked me, "Can you speak Latin?"

I replied "No I can't"

She replied, "You'll catch on quickly"

carmelspall.org

Quoted by LaudemGloriae Don't worry about one being more popular than another. Go where the Lord wants you Amen to that! :thumbsup:


#11

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