What's the spiritual basis for The Church of England?


#1

This may seem a bit pedestrian, but I’d like to know how Episcopalians can justify their church when, as I understand it, its whole foundation was to justify Henry VIII’s divorce from Catherine of Aragon and his remarriage to Anne Boleyn.

And, given the disintegration of the Episcopal Church in recent years (splits over homosexuality, for instance), wouldn’t it just make sense for those members who seek the fullness of truth to simply become Roman Catholics?


#2

The Church of England, along with the fragmentation of the rest of Christianity outside of Catholicism, is the direct result of open rebellion to what Christ established. Our house is built on the Rock (Kepha - Peter), since they are not, their house in built on sand. And it is becoming evident that the storms of time have eroded the foundations of Protestantism, and the houses are crumbling. Am I the only one that is not surprised by this?


#3

I, for one, am not surprised. Building a church on a Rock is one thing; building it on heresy is quite another.


#4

I have wondered the same exact thing myself, as we are presently going to an Episcopal Church and it is one of the issues I am dealing with. We love our Church, but when I think of this fact, it discourages me. I hold to the principles of the RCC, but have not found one yet that we like as well. This Episcopal Church is filled with people filled with the spirit, Christ’s love, wonderful Homily’s, a dear Priest, good music, just all around great! The Catholic Churches in my area are all dead as a doornail.

I’ve wondered and contemplated the same thing! Maybe I haven’t really grown enough in my Catholic Faith yet to make a firm decision, as I haven’t even been confirmed yet, probably not until next Easter.
I look at it as we are all people, all sinners, all Christ’s Body. There are good and bad Christians and Catholics any and everywhere. I feel if you find a Church you like, and we worship God there, then voila, Christ will meet us. I know, after speaking with this Priest, he says Yes, the Episcopal Church does believe in the real presence in the Eucharist. Yes, indeed, and I feel the entire congregation is aware of this too.

So, it puzzles me a bit, knowing the reason for their break in the first place.

You’re not alone----

God Bless~~~


#5

Henry’s impetus, orginally, was dynastic. He had no legitimate male heir and his line was none too secure, him being only the 2nd Tudor on the throne. Kings got tossed out rather frequently in those days, if they slipped; it’s how Henry VII came to power.

In the beginning, after Catherine was obviously not going to produce an heir, Hank started manuvering to strengthen his dynasty using what resources he had: Mary, his legitmate daughter, and Henry Fitzroy, his illegtimate son (had it been the other way around, Henry would have been happier). Various things were done, to see if one of these two might make a suitable heir.

Whilst this was going on, Henry said that he begin worrying about the legitimacy of his marriage to Catherine, his brother’s widow, when she failed to produce a male heir. He raised the issue of the Levitical prohibition on that sort of thing, and sought, as was a commonplace in those days, a decree of nullity with respect to his marriage. He then would marry again (Anne had caught his eye as this process begin) and see if the Lord would favor the union. This looked like a pretty neat solution to Hank. And it happened ALL the time.The canonical system was designed to accomodate it (one reason why Trent, in the 24th session, made a few decrees to reform the whole thing).

Though such a process was the way in which dynastic marriages were made and unmade, for purposes of state, during this period (Henry’s sister received a decree of nullity for purely personal reasons, 2 weeks before Henry filed his own causa), there was a problem in Henry’s case. While his arguement on the matter was fairly good (better than he actually made, in that he did not argue on the basis of an undispensed diriment impediment of the public honesty in his marriage to Catherine, the strongest point he had, but on the weaker Levetical prohibition), it faced the daunting figure of Charles V, Catherine’s nephew. And given the realpolitick in that situation, no way was a Pope going to rule for Henry. And so off we went.

There’s a lot of history crammed into the above. More details available on request. This is an expalnation of whaq happened, not a judgement on it. I have found that such an explanation is often useful.

GKC


#6

We were Charismatic Episcopalians for a number of years, but found the church to be ‘theology by committee,’ and knew that sooner or later they would marry sodomites. Who knew one would lead the flock? Many from our prayer group have independently gone to the Catholic Church since ‘Vicki’s’ ordination. I am reticent, however (tho we are in RCIA) because there seems to be as much embracing of homosexuality in our diocese (LA) as there is in the Episcopal Church, and very little clarity. OK, NO clarity.I hear it is different in other parts of the country, but I cannot join another church that doesn’t GET IT.


#7

That priest was wrong - some do and some don’t - It is a matter of choice.

[quote=sparkle]I have wondered the same exact thing myself, as we are presently going to an Episcopal Church and it is one of the issues I am dealing with. We love our Church, but when I think of this fact, it discourages me. I hold to the principles of the RCC, but have not found one yet that we like as well. This Episcopal Church is filled with people filled with the spirit, Christ’s love, wonderful Homily’s, a dear Priest, good music, just all around great! The Catholic Churches in my area are all dead as a doornail.

I’ve wondered and contemplated the same thing! Maybe I haven’t really grown enough in my Catholic Faith yet to make a firm decision, as I haven’t even been confirmed yet, probably not until next Easter.
I look at it as we are all people, all sinners, all Christ’s Body. There are good and bad Christians and Catholics any and everywhere. I feel if you find a Church you like, and we worship God there, then voila, Christ will meet us. I know, after speaking with this Priest, he says Yes, the Episcopal Church does believe in the real presence in the Eucharist. Yes, indeed, and I feel the entire congregation is aware of this too.

So, it puzzles me a bit, knowing the reason for their break in the first place.

You’re not alone----

God Bless~~~
[/quote]


#8

[quote=bboop]We were Charismatic Episcopalians for a number of years, but found the church to be ‘theology by committee,’ and knew that sooner or later they would marry sodomites. Who knew one would lead the flock? Many from our prayer group have independently gone to the Catholic Church since ‘Vicki’s’ ordination. I am reticent, however (tho we are in RCIA) because there seems to be as much embracing of homosexuality in our diocese (LA) as there is in the Episcopal Church, and very little clarity. OK, NO clarity.I hear it is different in other parts of the country, but I cannot join another church that doesn’t GET IT.
[/quote]

That is the people - not the Church


#9

[quote=sparkle]I have wondered the same exact thing myself, as we are presently going to an Episcopal Church and it is one of the issues I am dealing with. We love our Church, but when I think of this fact, it discourages me. I hold to the principles of the RCC, but have not found one yet that we like as well. This Episcopal Church is filled with people filled with the spirit, Christ’s love, wonderful Homily’s, a dear Priest, good music, just all around great! The Catholic Churches in my area are all dead as a doornail.

I’ve wondered and contemplated the same thing! Maybe I haven’t really grown enough in my Catholic Faith yet to make a firm decision, as I haven’t even been confirmed yet, probably not until next Easter.
I look at it as we are all people, all sinners, all Christ’s Body. There are good and bad Christians and Catholics any and everywhere. I feel if you find a Church you like, and we worship God there, then voila, Christ will meet us. I know, after speaking with this Priest, he says Yes, the Episcopal Church does believe in the real presence in the Eucharist. Yes, indeed, and I feel the entire congregation is aware of this too.

So, it puzzles me a bit, knowing the reason for their break in the first place.

You’re not alone----

God Bless~~~
[/quote]

Hello, can I say that when we see a Church that we don’t agree with what is going on, then it is hard to remain, but Jesus has to remain in them.
I have over the years become a message junkie, but never crossing the line at totally believing them, just let time take care of the truth.
Now even though I don’t like many things in my church, well Jesus is still there, and as long as I receive Him as food for my soul, then that is all that matters.
Also the Rosary, Scapular,Holy water in your house, don’t worry, the Church is being Crucifed, but as on Good Friday it was very sad, I believe that the Catholic Church shall rise from the ashes.
Amen I say to you Amen !!!


#10

*I know, after speaking with this Priest, he says Yes, the Episcopal Church does believe in the real presence in the Eucharist. Yes, indeed, and I feel the entire congregation is aware of this too.
*

Oh dear!!! If you are able to get a hold of the Book of Common Prayer, which is the catechism/prayer book for the Episcopal Church, you will read**…“Transubstantiation (or the change of the substance of Bread and Wine) in the Supper of the Lord, cannot be proved by Holy Writ; it is repugnant to the plain words of Scripture; overthroweth the nature of a Sacrament, and hath given occasion to many superstitions**.”

That is taken from page 608, Articles of Religion XXVIII Of the Lord’s Supper.

The Episcopal Church does not only NOT have apostolic succession, it finds transubstantiation to be repugnant! The priest with whom you were speaking either does not know his faith or does not know what his church teaches.

The Episcopal Church celebrates the Last Supper - but they do not have the Eucharist…no way, no how


#11

[quote=chimakuni]*I know, after speaking with this Priest, he says Yes, the Episcopal Church does believe in the real presence in the Eucharist. Yes, indeed, and I feel the entire congregation is aware of this too.
*

Oh dear!!! If you are able to get a hold of the Book of Common Prayer, which is the catechism/prayer book for the Episcopal Church, you will read**…“Transubstantiation (or the change of the substance of Bread and Wine) in the Supper of the Lord, cannot be proved by Holy Writ; it is repugnant **to the plain words of Scripture; overthroweth the nature of a Sacrament, and hath given occasion to many superstitions.”

That is taken from page 608, Articles of Religion XXVIII Of the Lord’s Supper.

The Episcopal Church does not only NOT have apostolic succession, it finds transubstantiation to be repugnant! The priest with whom you were speaking either does not know his faith or does not know what his church teaches.

The Episcopal Church celebrates the Last Supper - but they do not have the Eucharist…no way, no how

[/quote]

Amen again to that - I was baptized an Anglican and you know - that is exactly what the prayerbook says although I know that some will dismiss that as Anglican doctrine - then again what is Anglican doctrine.


#12

[quote=walter]Amen again to that - I was baptized an Anglican and you know - that is exactly what the prayerbook says although I know that some will dismiss that as Anglican doctrine - then again what is Anglican doctrine.
[/quote]

Greetings, Charles,

As I pointed out above (or was it another trhread?) it certainly isn’t the 39 Articles. And never was. Not that there aren’t Anglicans who find the 39 Articles just peachy. Anglcinism has beena range of beliefs since Elizabeth told all of them to stop squabbling and sit down. We’ve had to live with it ever since. Me, I’ve never heard them mentioned in my parish at all (on the other hand, I occasionally get mention of the Pope, and asked to pray for him). And I can show parishes that carefully cut the Articles out and use them to kindle the new flame at Easter.

There are Anglicans and then there are Anglicans. Unfortunately, finding the good ones is getting difficult.

GKC


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