How are the suggestions of a “hologram universe” or a “multiverse” any more “mind-blowing” than the claim that the universe was created by an all-powerful being for apparently nothing more than “testing” a handful of creatures on one single planet in the middle of nowhere among billions of stars that took billions of years to even begin to develop?
Objectively speaking, it’s the last of these claims that strikes the mind as most outlandish.
I never said that the argument for God’s existence isn’t mind-blowing. It is. Of course, the way you describe it…as being “tested”…that doesn’t begin to understand the beauty of God’s gift to us. You portray God as a little kid poking ants with a stick to see what they’ll do. That’s sad and inaccurate.
You just said it yourself: humans have a natural curiosity about these things.
The way everything works. The answer was in your question.
I also have a curiosity about these things, but I realize that the ultimate question of “what started it all” is not knowable through scientific means. That’s what I was asking about cosmologists.
Incidentally, it may not be until after we discover something that the practical applications – if there are any – become apparent. Finding out the answers to some of these questions might just be something that’s neat to know OR it could be the basis of some amazing, life-changing innovation in the future. That’s part of the reason we pursue these questions.
I’m sure there would be lots of amazing toys we could create with this knowledge…but again, what’s the point of having amazing toys?
I doubt that many scientists would claim that discovering answers to these questions “proves” that God doesn’t exist, but I do think that most scientists – and most people, in fact – would have to admit that it would make God largely irrelevant and belief in such a God entirely superfluous.
If we understand exactly how the universe came about, and it’s a completely natural process, then we don’t need to postulate a “god” or “gods” to explain anything. The concept of Gods would be entirely superfluous.
Now we’re getting somewhere…how exactly could everything come about from nothing, by a completely natural process? To me, the idea of God acting as the intelligent prime mover is much simpler than the idea of an infinite chain of universes. We face an infinity either way…but one is an explained infinity, the other is like the old joke about the world resting on the back of a giant turtle. When someone asks what that giant turtle rests on, the answer is: another giant turtle. When they ask again the punchline is: It’s turtles all the way down.
How could an infinite string of universes exist? Where did energy come from? If we’re talking about the “zero energy” universe, where did the fluctuation come from that caused it to leave the zero energy state?
And how did you come to that conclusion, Mr. I’m-smarter-than-the-people-who-study-this-stuff-for-a-living? If you could actually demonstrate that it’s impossible, you could win yourself a Nobel Prize (not to mention save everybody else a lot of time).
I’m glad you asked. God showed me as my faith developed. I’m not smarter than a cosmologist…the things they do with math are beyond me. But I don’t have to be smarter in that regard…many of them simply don’t see the forest for the trees. Apples and oranges really. To answer your question though…it’s already been demonstrated to be impossible for science to fully explain the system in which it operates. Godel’s Incompleteness theorems shows that no coherent system can prove it’s own consistency.
You gotta watch those “musts” – it’s the sound of a leap in logic, also known as an argument from ignorance.
Of course there has to be a “leap in logic”…it’s called faith. When the human ability to understand things (like the beginning of all space and time) hits a wall, it’s only wise to admit our limitations.
“I don’t know how the universe came to be…therefore, God must have done it!” Did you hear the whoosh that time?
Again, you missed the point… It’s not that I (or anyone else) doesn’t know how the universe began. That would simply imply that we need to try harder, or wait longer, and in that case it would be silly to say it MUST be God. The issue is that we can’t know, not in scientific terms. If you disagree with that, you must unravel Godel’s Incompleteness theorems and show us where his error lies.