What's with them?


#1

I’m talking about Catholics who keep telling you with scowls on their faces to be more quiet, more this and more that in chapels, when people pray, etc. I understand the part about not distracting others with my noise volume, but it seems to me as if they put the feelings of others above mine, that the fact that I’m doing something they disapprove of immediately relegates me to “second-class” status where my feeling don’t matter as much as others’ feelings. They should really learn the saving “the road to hell is paved with good intentions”.


#2

My dear friend

I think what your saying is you get a bit scolded speaking in the Lords house? If so, it’s because we are supposed to pray in the Lords house. Jesus said, " My fathers house sall be a house of prayer" at the whippig incident. People were disrespectful to Gods house and Jesus drove them out by whipping the offenders. I wrote my version of an explaination of this icident here a few mths ago. But we learn that we are to have the utmost respect for God and not just our neighbour and remember the church or chapel is place we go to pray to and worship God. It is not for a friendly chat as many hink. We can talk and carry on our normal lives outsde the chapel. I hope my ideas don’t offend you and I hope you can understand theres a bit better. There just doing what they feel is right. I read some of your blog too- not bad:thumbsup:

May God bless you:thumbsup::slight_smile:

John


#3

feel free to correct me. When I was growing up in the 1950’s and 60’s the Mass was viewed as more of a Sacrifice. It seemed, at least to me, that after Vatican II the Mass took on the view as more of a Supper.

Church went from being “present at Calvary” to “dinner in the dining - room” (with all the chit-chat). I admit to getting annoyed at all the chit-chat when I’m trying to pray; I also admit to being part of the problem (chit-chat) at times.

I think the Mass is recognized as both Sacrifice and Supper. It would seem to me that people who want to chat before Mass should try to keep the noise down if people near-by are trying to pray.


#4

My problem isn’t so much with the correcting (which IS necessary since people who chitchat WILL disturb the others around them who want to pray), it’s with the manner in which the correcting is delivered. I also understand what the correcters are usually more interested in the feelings of those whose prayers are being disturbed or with the fact that silence is not kept in a holy place than with the feelings of the offenders. This is what I have a problem with. It smacks of non-humility and non-empathy (creating new words here, but I’m sure y’all know what I mean :smiley: ). I’m quite sure God isn’t more interested in maintaining a prayerful atmosphere than people hurting one another in that prayerful atmosphere. I just wish the correcters would remember that.


#5

My dear friend

I understand and empathise with you. Peope can be harsh and very judgmental. Charity is the one virtue we must really aspire to if we want heaven. Last first friday devotions where we have eucharisic adoration overnight I was making my visit and there was lots of people there. I was praying the prayers and hymns on my ipod. I had no idea the others could hear it After a few hrs a gent came up and was quite angry and told me to turn it down. I explained I never knew others could hear it and apologised a few tmes. He looked like he was ready for a fight. People can be judgmental and uncharitable. Its our unhappy lot now. Its best to just do our best to get along at times like this.

God bless you:thumbsup::slight_smile:
John


#6

So, let me get this straight. Your desire to socialize (inappropriately) in a chapel trumps everyone else’s need to spend time in quiet prayer with Almighty God? A wee bit on the prideful side, don’t you think? Take the conversation outside the chapel where it belongs.


#7

Oy, same here: I mean, I don’t like to be distracted/disturbed while I’m praying, but when I get someone come up to me who looks like they just ate a lemon soaked in vinegar and they give me this big long harangue about being more respectful of Our Lord in the Eucharist, it’s sometimes all I can do to keep from laughing, especially if they’re making noise than I was. I got this once because I sneezed loudly due to having bad allergies and said sneeze popped out faster than I could get out a handkerchief to catch it.


#8

I can see both sides of this.

I agree, that we should be as quiet as possible in the House of God; and especially, in the Presence of the Blessed Sacrament. But I have come to understand, that disruptions do occur now and then. Our Lord Himself, certainly understands this. I feel, that as disciples of Jesus Christ, we should learn to be tolerant and patient with those around us.

This is especially true for parents with young children. And for the disabled and their caregivers. I have examples of each.

There is a young father who brings his toddler age daughter to daily Mass, frequently. Daily Mass is held in a very, VERY small side chapel. On more than one occasion, the child has been noisy and disruptive. The father attempts to quiet her. But sometimes, isn’t able to. When she becomes completely unruly, he will either step outside with her… or into the Vesting Sacristy, where he can still hear Mass. I have seen some of the “5 dayers” scowling at him, and muttering under their breath… in an uncharitable, “holier than thou” way.

This devout, young father is trying to avail himself of the Sacraments AND teach his baby to do the same. Does the fact that she is sometimes disruptive, mean that he should not bring her to daily Mass? Maybe he can’t get a baby sitter. I don’t know.

All I do know is that Jesus Himself said: "Let the little children come to Me, and do not hinder them, for of such is the Kingdom of God." (Luke 18:17)

When I take my mother to daily Mass, she sits in a wheelchair. We have been made to feel a little “unwelcome” twice, because it was necessary for the chapel chairs to be moved around, to accommodate her wheel chair. She occasionally has had minor “outbursts” in the Chapel too (she has Alzheimer’s). Does this mean that I shouldn’t bring my mother to daily Mass?

I doubt that Jesus would think so. I’m sure Our Lord is extremely happy to see that young father WITH his child; and also, my sweet mother… despite all her special needs.

Thank you for allowing me to express my :twocents:

God bless.


#9

People should indeed try to be charitable. . .but sometimes, body language etc. aren’t well read. For example, the person ‘scowling’ might have that look because she/he is short-sighted, cannot afford new glasses, and has been squinting for years. They might ‘look’ scowling when in reality they are far from such.

Also, 'tone of voice" is something that we are hypersensitive of in others and nearly insensible of in ourselves. If we feel guilty, we might ‘hear’ an angry scolding tone in another’s voice that wasn’t really there. In fact, if we heard the very same words and tones from the person to another, we might not hear scolding at all!

And do remember that it goes both ways. While a person might complain that the ‘scolder’ was only thinking of the ‘scolder’s’ needs, etc. and making them more important, by the mere fact of complaining about the scolder being that way, this person is really making HIS needs etc. more important than the scolder’s, even if he doesn’t realize it.


#10

Point well taken, “Te”. I too, suffer from extremely poor vision and often squint (I can only imagine the faces I must be making :wink: ). But in the example I have given… the scowling occurred during the child’s disruptions. This was also accompanied, by the scowler… “huffing” up out of her seat, and moving across to the other side of the chapel… in a very disapproving way.

There was no doubt about what had happened. She was distancing herself from the child.


#11

Yes, I’m short sighted and probably scare the daylights out of people with my owl-eyed squint. I should have been more specific since now I see you used the same term in your post, but I was responding to the OPs first post where he said “with scowls on their faces.” Of course, even with your scowler distancing herself, one can always hope that (if not then, later) the person removed herself in recognition of her own limitations in charity.


#12

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.