What's wrong with 'liberalism'


#1

I just wanted to try and get a list of things, the term implies freedom of the individual as in libertarian- right? So what’s wrong with the idea and how does it conflict Catholic teaching?


#2

Liberalism is a Sin - you will find it all here.


#3

“Liberal” and “conservative” are useful but relative terms. Liberal in general usage means more freedom for individuals and more willingness to look at the tradition in new ways or even reject it. Conservative means more faithfulness to traditional ways of thinking. There’s a sense in which the Church must always be conservative, because the Faith has been once delivered to the saints. But at the same time, our understanding of that revelation develops, and at many points in history a “conservative” approach may simply mean an idolatrous slavery to the status quo. So neither conservatism or liberalism is necessarily good or bad in itself.

By some standards, both the previous Pope and this one are/were liberals. It all depends on your perspective.

Edwin


#4

I believe this has been stated before:

Because of the confusion over terminology related to politics (liberal/ conservative), it would be far better in discussion of the teachings of the Catholic Church to refer to those involved (teachers, students, clergy, laity) as “orthodox” or “heterodox”. We can find people who are politically conservative whose Catholic beliefs are heterodox and those who are politically liberal with beliefs which are orthodox–I know people tend to assume that “conservative” pols are orthodox and “liberal” pols heterodox, but that is too broad a generalization IMO.


#5

Thank you, Edwin, for such a loving and thoughtful reply. I know that having these terms - “liberalism” and “conservatism” - tossed about can cause such pain.

Personally, I had a long and painful personal journey back to the Catholic faith. What I know now is that truth is not relative when it comes to faith in Jesus and his teachings. I am learning so much about the richness of my faith, things I took for granted as a child, that I find myself having a more loving and tolerant heart towards those who do not believe as I do. I don’t want to argue, I defend my faith as truth and can love those who do not share my faith while praying for either their conversion or re-conversion (a brother, a sister and a cousin have left Jesus and the throne of Peter - I pray for them daily).

I think, and I may be expressing this poorly so forgive me, that we have attached such emotion to words that we forget that we can love the truth, love each other and love Christ - which is how we keep the door to Home open.

Please keep my family in your prayers.


#6

[quote=Tantum ergo]I believe this has been stated before:

Because of the confusion over terminology related to politics (liberal/ conservative), it would be far better in discussion of the teachings of the Catholic Church to refer to those involved (teachers, students, clergy, laity) as “orthodox” or “heterodox”. We can find people who are politically conservative whose Catholic beliefs are heterodox and those who are politically liberal with beliefs which are orthodox–I know people tend to assume that “conservative” pols are orthodox and “liberal” pols heterodox, but that is too broad a generalization IMO.
[/quote]

But that is itself a political move. Political categories are valid within the Church, as long as they are recognized as relative instead of being absolutized as the media does (I hate the fact that the only thing they can discuss about the new Pope is how “conservative” he is, instead of understanding the doctrine of communion that is at the heart of his theology). Conservative vs. liberal denote a spectrum; orthodox vs. unorthodox denote a circle with limits outside of which one can stray. Sure, liberals are more likely to stray on the whole, but conservatives (not just with regard to secular politics) can also be unorthodox (witness the Feeneyites).

Is it unorthodox to dispute the CDF’s declaration that Ordinatio Sacerdotalis simply expressed what was already taught by the Ordinary Magisterium? Sure, you can say it is, but that’s your opinion. A “liberal” could nonetheless claim to be orthodox, by denying that certain declarations have the authority you claim they have.

I’m sorry, but liberal and conservative are useful terms within the Church and your attempt to replace them with the self-serving “orthodox” and “unorthodox” will be resisted.

Edwin


#7

I really don’t like these secular views or ideology being mixed up in the church. There are a lot of ideas that one might consider ‘liberalism’ that Church feels are very important such as social justice, enviromentalism ect. and on the other hand we see alot of ideas that one might consider ‘conservitic’(sp?) that church diffentilly frown on. I think that Catholics and everyone for that matter really needs to stay away from these secular ideas that is really the root of the problem.

Just my two cents.:smiley:


#8

[quote=FightingFat]I just wanted to try and get a list of things, the term implies freedom of the individual as in libertarian- right? So what’s wrong with the idea and how does it conflict Catholic teaching?
[/quote]

Liberalism is specious and sophistic. It presents false dichotomies and, generally, spreads untruths. It’s kind of like making a mud cake and presenting it as a chocolate cake.


#9

[quote=FightingFat]I just wanted to try and get a list of things, the term implies freedom of the individual as in libertarian- right? So what’s wrong with the idea and how does it conflict Catholic teaching?
[/quote]

Liberalism puts self above God. Christianity puts God above self.


#10

Liberalism is the root of heresy, the tree of evil in whose branches all the harpies of infidelity find ample shelter; it is today the evil of all evils. (Ch. 4). “The theater, literature, public and private morals are all saturated with obscenity and impurity. The result is inevitable; a corrupt generation necessarily begets a revolutionary generation. Liberalism is the program of naturalism. Free-thought begets free morals, or immorality. Restraint is thrown off and a free rein given to the passions. Whoever thinks what he pleases will do what he pleases. Liberalism in the intellectual order is license in the moral order. Disorder in the intellect begets disorder in the heart, and vice-versa. Thus does Liberalism propagate immorality, and immorality Liberalism.” (Ch. 26).

Liberalism “is, therefore, the radical and universal denial of all divine truth and Christian dogma, the primal type of all heresy, and the supreme rebellion against the authority of God and His Church. As with Lucifer, its maxim is, ‘I will not serve.’” (Ch. 3).

“Liberalism, whether in the doctrinal or practical order, is a sin. In the doctrinal order, it is heresy, and consequently a mortal sin against faith. In the practical order, it is a sin against the commandments of God and of the Church, for it virtually transgresses all commandments. To be more precise: in the doctrinal order, Liberalism strikes at the very foundations of faith; it is heresy radical and universal, because within it are comprehended all heresies. In the practical order it is a radical and universal infraction of the divine law, since it sanctions and authorizes all infractions of that law.” (Ch. 3).


#11

[quote=buffalo]Liberalism is the root of heresy, the tree of evil in whose branches all the harpies of infidelity find ample shelter; it is today the evil of all evils. (Ch. 4). “The theater, literature, public and private morals are all saturated with obscenity and impurity. The result is inevitable; a corrupt generation necessarily begets a revolutionary generation. Liberalism is the program of naturalism. Free-thought begets free morals, or immorality. Restraint is thrown off and a free rein given to the passions. Whoever thinks what he pleases will do what he pleases. Liberalism in the intellectual order is license in the moral order. Disorder in the intellect begets disorder in the heart, and vice-versa. Thus does Liberalism propagate immorality, and immorality Liberalism.” (Ch. 26).

Liberalism “is, therefore, the radical and universal denial of all divine truth and Christian dogma, the primal type of all heresy, and the supreme rebellion against the authority of God and His Church. As with Lucifer, its maxim is, ‘I will not serve.’” (Ch. 3).

“Liberalism, whether in the doctrinal or practical order, is a sin. In the doctrinal order, it is heresy, and consequently a mortal sin against faith. In the practical order, it is a sin against the commandments of God and of the Church, for it virtually transgresses all commandments. To be more precise: in the doctrinal order, Liberalism strikes at the very foundations of faith; it is heresy radical and universal, because within it are comprehended all heresies. In the practical order it is a radical and universal infraction of the divine law, since it sanctions and authorizes all infractions of that law.” (Ch. 3).
[/quote]

This is liberalism as defined in the Syllabus of Errors and only partially overlaps with liberalism in the more recent context in oursociety. The Syllabus also condemned Democracy which the made the US bishops uncomfortable when it was issued. The standard of correctness was “A Catholic Monarch in a Catholic Country.” Most of these terms can be very misleading unless they are used in a context which makes it plain just what is meant by the term as it is used. Out of context liberal and conservative as labels are basically terms used to diss ones opponent in an arguement and have no other significant valuie.


#12

[quote=buffalo]Liberalism is the root of heresy, the tree of evil in whose branches all the harpies of infidelity find ample shelter; it is today the evil of all evils. (Ch. 4). “The theater, literature, public and private morals are all saturated with obscenity and impurity. The result is inevitable; a corrupt generation necessarily begets a revolutionary generation. Liberalism is the program of naturalism. Free-thought begets free morals, or immorality. Restraint is thrown off and a free rein given to the passions. Whoever thinks what he pleases will do what he pleases. Liberalism in the intellectual order is license in the moral order. Disorder in the intellect begets disorder in the heart, and vice-versa. Thus does Liberalism propagate immorality, and immorality Liberalism.” (Ch. 26).

Liberalism “is, therefore, the radical and universal denial of all divine truth and Christian dogma, the primal type of all heresy, and the supreme rebellion against the authority of God and His Church. As with Lucifer, its maxim is, ‘I will not serve.’” (Ch. 3).

“Liberalism, whether in the doctrinal or practical order, is a sin. In the doctrinal order, it is heresy, and consequently a mortal sin against faith. In the practical order, it is a sin against the commandments of God and of the Church, for it virtually transgresses all commandments. To be more precise: in the doctrinal order, Liberalism strikes at the very foundations of faith; it is heresy radical and universal, because within it are comprehended all heresies. In the practical order it is a radical and universal infraction of the divine law, since it sanctions and authorizes all infractions of that law.” (Ch. 3).
[/quote]

This is liberalism as defined in the Syllabus of Errors and only partially overlaps with liberalism in the more recent context in oursociety. The Syllabus also condemned Democracy which the made the US bishops uncomfortable when it was issued. The standard of correctness was “A Catholic Monarch in a Catholic Country.” Most of these terms can be very misleading unless they are used in a context which makes it plain just what is meant by the term as it is used. Out of context liberal and conservative are used as perjorative labels used to diss ones opponent in an arguement and have no other significant value.


#13

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