When did Jesus know He was the son of God?


#1

He clearly knew at the age of 12, since He was talking to rabbis because it was His father's work. But does the Bible or tradition ever say when he became aware of who He was? Was He born from Mary fully self aware?


#2

The Bible doesn't say. I personally don't think He was consciously aware till a certain age. Might have been around 12yrs old when he went off on His own worrying his poor mother. :) Even Jesus had to go through that awkward in between stage all boys go through. I don't think He was aware of it as a small child.


#3

[quote="Skye_Ariel, post:2, topic:310906"]
The Bible doesn't say. I personally don't think He was consciously aware till a certain age. Might have been around 12yrs old when he went off on His own worrying his poor mother. :) Even Jesus had to go through that awkward in between stage all boys go through. I don't think He was aware of it as a small child.

[/quote]

He is God. There has never been anything that God did not know. Our Lord was never half-man and half-God. From the moment of His conception, He was aware of who He was. Anything else doesn't make sense. And His Blessed Mother, St Joseph and St Elizabeth were aware of who he was too (though as mere humans they struggled to fully understand its implications). Jesus did not have to struggle to understand anything.

It's true that the gospel says "He grew in wisdom" after the age of 12. However being fully God as well as fully Man, His wisdom could not literally increase. He already had literally all the wisdom in the world (and beyond it).


#4

This is a good question. My understanding is this: Jesus words to Mary and Joseph upon finding Him in the temple DO NOT indicate to me His sudden awareness about His own divinity. He was already walking in that light.

Also His words at the Finding in the Temple do not indicate a sudden awareness on the part of Mary and Joseph either. They already were warned to take the newborn Jesus, the Messiah, away into Egypt for safety. They already knew he was the Messiah. They already were visited by angels. They already met Simeon who confirmed he was the anointed one. They already saw scriptural prophecies coming true all around them. But they had to live day to day, making a living, feeding a family, washing, teaching, paying the bills, going to temple.

But since there had never been a God-become-man before, how would anyone know how to fully understand what that entailed? The parents still had to raise this divine human: teach Him, guide Him, show Him how to function in the physical world and observe His remarkable and graceful growth.

And how would this God-become-man show His own understanding and knowledge that He was the Son of God? He was born in humble circumstances; so He would reveal his own knowledge of His divinity humbly, slowly, in its own time. He spent 30 years before He fully shone that divine light. He learned from Joseph how to be a carpenter, how to read the Torah. He was divine but was born in HUMAN form. God was living from the inside what it was to be human.

He must have known of His divinity all along and simply grew deeper into that awareness. That is the awesome power and beauty of His humble beginnings in the Holy Family.


#5

St. Thomas Aquinas considers that the human nature of Christ attained spiritual perfection from the very beginning, while Popes Benedict XV and Pius XII have taught He knew everything from the earliest moments of His life.

I answer that, As stated above (Article 1), spiritual perfection was becoming to the human nature which Christ took, which perfection He attained not by making progress, but by receiving it from the very first. Now ultimate perfection does not consist in power or habit, but in operation; wherefore it is said (De Anima ii, text. 5) that operation is a "second act." We must, therefore, say that in the first instant of His conception Christ had that operation of the soul which can be had in an instant. And such is the operation of the will and intellect, in which the use of free-will consists. For the operation of the intellect and will is sudden and instantaneous, much more, indeed, than corporeal vision; inasmuch as to understand, to will, and to feel, are not movements that may be described as "acts of an imperfect being," which attains perfection successively, but are "the acts of an already perfect being," as is said, De Anima iii, text. 28. We must therefore say that Christ had the use of free-will in the first instant of His conception. * (S. th. III:34:2)
*
The following proposition is rejected: “The opinion cannot be declared certain, which holds that the soul of Christ was ignorant of nothing but from the beginning knew in the Word everything, past, present and future, that is to say everything which God knows with the ‘knowledge of vision’.”
(Pope Benedict XV, Decree of the Holy Office of 1918, D 2184)

“The knowledge and love of our Divine Redeemer, of which we were the object from the first moment of His Incarnation, exceed all the human intellect can hope to grasp. For hardly was He conceived in the womb of the Mother of God, when He began to enjoy the beatific vision, and in that vision all the members of His Mystical Body were continually and unceasingly present to Him, and He embraced them with His redeeming love.” (Pius XII, Mystici Corporis 75)

Cf. When did Christ reach the "age of reason"?


#6

[quote="Pedro_1987, post:1, topic:310906"]
He clearly knew at the age of 12, since He was talking to rabbis because it was His father's work. But does the Bible or tradition ever say when he became aware of who He was? Was He born from Mary fully self aware?

[/quote]

when Jesus found out who His Father Is
and He plainly did have something early on to do with the temple ..

God bless Y'all


#7

[quote="Petergee, post:3, topic:310906"]
He is God. There has never been anything that God did not know. Our Lord was never half-man and half-God. From the moment of His conception, He was aware of who He was. Anything else doesn't make sense. And His Blessed Mother, St Joseph and St Elizabeth were aware of who he was too (though as mere humans they struggled to fully understand its implications). Jesus did not have to struggle to understand anything.

It's true that the gospel says "He grew in wisdom" after the age of 12. However being fully God as well as fully Man, His wisdom could not literally increase. He already had literally all the wisdom in the world (and beyond it).

[/quote]

Yes I agree He always knew, but was His humanity always conscious of it before age 12? That, I think we'll never know. If His humanity was always conscious of it and He had the human mind of a 2yr old when He was a toddler, how did He never in His human child mind never set something on fire when He had a temper tantrum? Or get mad at 1yr old and stop the sun from rising? LOL! :) He was 100% human with a human child's mind as a toddler. I think a part of Him always knew, but that maybe He wasn't consciously aware till He was mature enough to start to understand it like around 11 or 12yrs old. His divinity side might have deliberately blocked it out from His conscious mind the way people block out bad memories, till He was humanly mature enough to know and understand.


#8

They actually just talked about this on Catholic Answers and the basicall said that there was never a moment where Jesus did not know He was God.


#9

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:1


#10

[quote="Glacies, post:5, topic:310906"]

“The knowledge and love of our Divine Redeemer, of which we were the object from the first moment of His Incarnation, exceed all the human intellect can hope to grasp. For hardly was He conceived in the womb of the Mother of God, when He began to enjoy the beatific vision, and in that vision all the members of His Mystical Body were continually and unceasingly present to Him, and He embraced them with His redeeming love.” (Pius XII, )

[/quote]

this is really good, thank you


#11

[quote="Skye_Ariel, post:7, topic:310906"]
Yes I agree He always knew, but was His humanity always conscious of it before age 12? That, I think we'll never know. If His humanity was always conscious of it and He had the human mind of a 2yr old when He was a toddler, how did He never in His human child mind never set something on fire when He had a temper tantrum? Or get mad at 1yr old and stop the sun from rising? LOL! :) He was 100% human with a human child's mind as a toddler. I think a part of Him always knew, but that maybe He wasn't consciously aware till He was mature enough to start to understand it like around 11 or 12yrs old. His divinity side might have deliberately blocked it out from His conscious mind the way people block out bad memories, till He was humanly mature enough to know and understand.

[/quote]

Are you serious? Having a temper tantrum, getting mad, or committing arson are SINS. He was 100% free from sin, 100% of the time.

He didn't have a divinity "side", He was 100% divine (as well as 100% human - look up "hypostatic union"). He was always conscious of everything (the Gospel in fact states specifically "He always knew everything that would happen").


#12

[quote="Petergee, post:11, topic:310906"]
Are you serious? Having a temper tantrum, getting mad, or committing arson are SINS. He was 100% free from sin, 100% of the time.

He didn't have a divinity "side", He was 100% divine (as well as 100% human - look up "hypostatic union"). He was always conscious of everything (the Gospel in fact states specifically "He always knew everything that would happen").

[/quote]

Temper tantrums in babies is not a sin, getting angry is not a sin and setting fires is not a sin. Don't you set fires when you have a fireplace? :) Fire in and of itself is not a sin, like the burning bush. Jesus got mad in the temple when he went through there and turned those tables over because the people were gambling in there. I don't mean literally His divinity "side" I use side for lack of a better word. Yes Jesus was 100% human and 100% God. The human baby part of Him thought like a child and reasoned like a child. It's the physiological development of the child's brain that makes small children incapable of understanding some things. When you combine being consciously aware that you are God with the immature reasoning of a child anything can happen.

I believe Jesus always knew deep down who He is, I agree with that, I'm just not sure He was always conscious of it as a small child. Could His small human child's mind even handle that as a small child? There's a difference between knowing and being **conscious **of something. :)


#13

Jesus did not start walking and talking and quoting scripture at 2 months old, He grew and developed like a normal baby. :) His brain grew and developed like a normal baby and child. Emotionally He grew like a normal baby and child. I believe He always knew who He was I'm just not sure His human child mind was always conscious of it till the right time. :)


#14

[quote="Skye_Ariel, post:13, topic:310906"]
Jesus did not start walking and talking and quoting scripture at 2 months old,

[/quote]

Only because He **chose **not to do so for the benefit of others.

Just as God did not reveal the entirety of His divinely revealed Truth to Abraham, or Moses or the OT Prophets. He chooses to reveal Himself gradually and give us a chance to work things out.

Or just as Jesus even during His ministry in this 30s, did not explicitly show everybody that He is God. He even asked the Apostles, "Who do men say that I am? Who do YOU say that I am?" God seems to love seeing us work these things out gradually.

He grew and developed like a normal baby. :) His brain grew and developed like a normal baby and child. Emotionally He grew like a normal baby and child. I believe He always knew who He was I'm just not sure His human child mind was always conscious of it till the right time. :)

Your persistently held position is not only illogical, as Glacies pointed out above, it is contrary to the doctrine of the Church and condemned as a heretical proposition.


#15

OMG! You are over reacting! LOL! Just like He chose to not walk and talk at 2 months old, and chose not to reveal Himself to us till the right time, why couldn't He choose not to let His human child mind be consciously aware of things till the right time? :shrug: All I'm saying is that He was 100% human which is what you also agree with so I don't understand why it upsets you to say He had a human child's mind. Why can't He have developed on the inside in His brain the same way He developed on the outside starting with a small child's body? I said He always knew He was God. **I don't understand why saying He had a human child's brain development the same way He had a human child's body development scares you so much. :shrug: To say His brain was not human and didn't develop like a human child's brain is to say He was **not **100% human but only human on the outside. **That's heretical proposition. If He was 100% human then his brain was human too from birth, period. If His brain wasn't 100% human then **He **wasn't 100% human. :shrug:

Can a normal human child's brain at 2yrs old comprehend the complexity of being God and human at the same time? No. Was Jesus 100% human? Yes. If He was 100% human then His brain was 100% human at 2yrs old and as an adult. That's all I'm saying. If you're saying His brain wasn't like a human child's brain then you are saying He wasn't 100% human and that's contrary to what the church teaches.


#16

[quote="Petergee, post:3, topic:310906"]
He is God. There has never been anything that God did not know. Our Lord was never half-man and half-God. From the moment of His conception, He was aware of who He was. Anything else doesn't make sense. And His Blessed Mother, St Joseph and St Elizabeth were aware of who he was too (though as mere humans they struggled to fully understand its implications). Jesus did not have to struggle to understand anything.

It's true that the gospel says "He grew in wisdom" after the age of 12. However being fully God as well as fully Man, His wisdom could not literally increase. He already had literally all the wisdom in the world (and beyond it).

[/quote]

Like you I too strongly feel Jesus always knew God even during His entire Incarnate/Conception in Mary His blessed mothers womb, Jesus was constantly in communication with His Heavenly Father in the Infinite Divine Mystery of the Holy Trinity. God the Father and the Holy Spirit were always in Jesus Holy Presence because Jesus Is God. Even though Jesus was Incarnate in a human body, one cannot separate the God nature of Jesus. Scripture cannot tell us everything about the Divine nature of God in the Mystery of the Holy Trinity.

Jesus coming upon the scene of the Temple. Luke 2: 40-47
drbo.org/chapter/49002.htm

[40] And the child grew, and waxed strong, full of wisdom; and the grace of God was in him.
[41] And his parents went every year to Jerusalem, at the solemn day of the pasch, [42] And when he was twelve years old, they going up into Jerusalem, according to the custom of the feast, [43] And having fulfilled the days, when they returned, the child Jesus remained in Jerusalem; and his parents knew it not. [44] And thinking that he was in the company, they came a day's journey, and sought him among their kinsfolks and acquaintance. [45] And not finding him, they returned into Jerusalem, seeking him.

[46] And it came to pass, that, after three days, they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, hearing them, and asking them questions. [47] And all that heard him were astonished at his wisdom and his answers.

I think this scene proves that at the human age of twelve Jesus had greater knownledge about scripture far more than His blessed parents taught Him or that Jesus read from Jewish holy writings.


#17

[quote="centurionguard, post:16, topic:310906"]
Like you I too strongly feel Jesus always knew God even during His entire Incarnate/Conception in Mary His blessed mothers womb, Jesus was constantly in communication with His Heavenly Father in the Infinite Divine Mystery of the Holy Trinity. God the Father and the Holy Spirit were always in Jesus Holy Presence because Jesus Is God. Even though Jesus was Incarnate in a human body, one cannot separate the God nature of Jesus. Scripture cannot tell us everything about the Divine nature of God in the Mystery of the Holy Trinity.

Jesus coming upon the scene of the Temple. Luke 2: 40-47
drbo.org/chapter/49002.htm

I think this scene proves that at the human age of twelve Jesus had greater knownledge about scripture far more than His blessed parents taught Him or that Jesus read from Jewish holy writings.

[/quote]

Yes, I believe He always knew too and was in constant communication with His father. :):thumbsup:


#18

[quote="Skye_Ariel, post:15, topic:310906"]
OMG! You are over reacting! LOL! Just like He chose to not walk and talk at 2 months old, and chose not to reveal Himself to us till the right time, why couldn't He choose not to let His human child mind be consciously aware of things till the right time?

[/quote]

IF He did so, that would have been a **conscious **decision on His part, so your proposition contradiucts itself. God does not do anything accidentally or absentmindedly.


#19

[quote="Petergee, post:18, topic:310906"]
IF He did so, that would have been a **conscious **decision on His part, so your proposition contradiucts itself. God does not do anything accidentally or absentmindedly.

[/quote]

Yes, that's what I've been saying, He in His divinity consciously did it not by accident, but on purpose. :thumbsup:


#20

[quote="Skye_Ariel, post:19, topic:310906"]
Yes, that's what I've been saying, He in His divinity consciously did it not by accident, but on purpose. :thumbsup:

[/quote]

We may be expressing the same idea in different ways.

The mystery of the Incarnation creates a number of apparent paradoxes to our fallen and limited human minds.


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