I was posed this question by a protestant. He Asked when did mary become a catholic and I answered the immaculate conception. But then I realized that the church didn’t officially begin until pentecost, and we know that mary did not need to be baptised because she was sinnless. So how should I answer this?
Well, she was in the upper room at Pentecost.
I think that God had plans for his church from the very beginning, so in a spiritual sense, it could have been at the immaculate conception, or at the Annunciation, or the birth of the Lord, or at Pentecost.
As for myself, I would say spiritually she “joined” at the annunciation, because she made a conscience decision to obey God.
She joined as soon as it existed since she believed even before it existed. As to when the Church was born…here is what the Catechism says:
Paragraph 766 “The origin and growth of the Church are symbolized by the blood and water which flowed from the open side of the crucified Jesus.”…the Church was born from the pierced heart of Christ hanging dead on the cross.
Paragraph 767 …on the day of Pentecost…the Church was openly displayed to the crowds and the spread of the Gospel among the nations, through preaching, was begun."
So it would either have been at the Cross or at Pentecost, depending on which origin of the Church you want to take (i.e. the supernatural beginning of paragraph 766 or the revealed beginning of paragraph 767.) I would tend to say she joined at the Cross in a real way and as the other poster said, her belief in that Church that was to come originated at the Annunciation.
What happens at Baptism? Our souls are fused with the Holy Spirit.
When was Mary’s soul fused with the Holy Spirit?
At Conception is when Mary became Catholic.
“When did Mary become a Catholic?”
When did Jesus become a Christian?
He never did become Christian - he was a Jew and he is the Christ.
Christians are those that follow Christ. Christ as a Christian would be like a dog chasing their tail.
Not trying to be blasphemous, here.
Yes, I know that. That was my point. It was a rhetorical question. In other words, this is what the OP should ask back to the Protestant.
I repeat, Mary became Catholic when Mary was conceived.
I would ask him, what makes him think that she was never baptized?
She could have been; I kinda think she was. (After all, Jesus was baptized Himself!!) She was after all, with Him in life and in death. She was with the apostles, after He returned to Heaven…So, who is to say, that she was never baptized??
She became the first member of the (Catholic) Church when she said “yes” at the Annunciation.
I was going to say either the Immaculate Conception, Annunciation, foot of the Cross, or Pentecost. I see that different folks also had the same ideas–well, one thing we do know, she is the most important member of the Church of Christ and closest to its Divine Head, Jesus Christ.
The Baptism of the Blessed Virgin Mary is mentioned by the Venerable Mary of Agreda in her book, The Mystical City of God.
If this is the case, then Mary publicly joined the Church at her baptism.
What do you receive at Baptism? The Holy Spirit, right?
When was Mary’s Soul completely united with the Holy Spirit? At her Conception, not at her Annunciation.
And when was she baptized?
Would like to hear more authority on the question.
But Mary seems to occupy a special place: she gives birth to Jesus Christ whose birth and words, deeds and death create–are still creating–our Church. Isn’t she sort of ‘grandmothered in’ as being the mother of the father of our Church?
I think I’ve just shown myself why I need to read more on the early Church.
I hear ya, and its a very good point. I guess my only problem with that answer is that in approaching the original question - when did she become a member of the Catholic Church - is that I dont think of the Church existing until after Pentecost. Christ said to Peter that upon him he will build the Church. I have always assumed that that was a future event that he intended to accomplish, and for that reason it would seem that Mary’s entry into the Church would have been a future event- but I could be wrong. Perhaps the Church, which is the mystical body of Christ, existed prior to Pentecost as you suggest…
I got you. But just as the Eucharist brings us back to Calvary, couldn’t the Immaculate Conception brings Mary forwards to Calvary?
I know I’m being a little esoteric here, but I’m basing all this simply on Mary receiving the Graces that we all receive in Baptism (of course, Mary got “a little sumthing, sumthing extra” in the deal)
The “Church Militant” started on the Pentecost, but Mary was with her right from the literal beginning, when she said “no” to herself and “yes” to Jesus.
[quote=Mary]Let it be done unto me according to your word.
If one is building a house, one starts off with a stretch of waste ground. Clearly not a house. Then generally one digs some trenches. No one would call that a “house” either. Gradually foundations, walls, the roof, and so on is added, until what you have is “a house with a few tiles missing from the roof”, something that anyone wiuld describe as a “house”. However it is difficult and not really meaningful to define the exact point at which the trenches become an “unfinished house”.
Similarly there is not much point in pinpointing an exact moment at which the Church came into being. It didn’t exist before Jesus was conceived, it did exist after Pentecost, it existed in a partially completed state in between.