When did the Blessed Virgin Mary come into existence?


#1

On several occasions I’ve come across things that seem to suggest that the Blessed Virgin existed prior to her earthly life. Am I way off base here? For example there’s Sirach chapter 24 verse 9. (RSV) “From eternity, in the beginning, he created me, and for eternity I shall not cease to exist.” What’s going on here?


#2

The Virgin Mary was born of her earthly father and mother and except from the fact that she was preserved from the stain of Original sin she was exactly the same as you and me.
And nOpe she did not exist before she was born. Our souls are created at the moment of conception not residing in some cup of souls or living in paradise like some new agers pretend.
Those are heresies that St Agustin and St Tomas Aquinas fought against.

Of course GOD being outside of time and omniscient did know Mary from the foundation of the Universe.....BUT that's also true of you and me :D

He knows everything about our lives our choices our falls and restarts.
Just as a father watches his little son or daughter learn to walk, falls, first words. So He watches us.

Peace :thumbsup:


#3

[quote="UntimelyBourn, post:1, topic:335594"]
On several occasions I've come across things that seem to suggest that the Blessed Virgin existed prior to her earthly life. Am I way off base here? For example there's Sirach chapter 24 verse 9. (RSV) "From eternity, in the beginning, he created me, and for eternity I shall not cease to exist." What's going on here?

[/quote]

The passage in Sirach is referring to Divine Wisdom. Wisdom is often personified in the Bible. We also see this in Proverbs. Since the word for wisdom is feminine in Hebrew, personifications are naturally female. This personification is for literary purposes only and not meant to teach that wisdom is an actual person.


#4

Mary came into existence at the moment of her conception, like the rest of us.

If the Old Testament's words about Holy Wisdom are to be applied to any personal being it is either to the Holy Spirit or, as I prefer, to the Logos (Jesus Christ). Any application to Mary would be analogous, and verses such as this one would be difficult or impossible to apply to such an interpretation.


#5

But, she, as with each one of us, must have existed somewhere in the Divine Intellect before time began. As I see it, Jesus, through Whom all things came into being (John 1:1-4) must have conceived of Mary in the Divine Intellect with the intention of bringing her to flesh so that she could, in turn, give her flesh to Him for the salvation of the world.


#6

If we want to bring it to the level of God’s knowledge, then that is something outside of time. God in His omniscience knows about every person who could possibly come into existence, including that finite number whom He wills to actually cause to come into existence. But that knowledge and the granting of actual existence are two separate things. God’s knowledge of Mary, and of each one of us, is atemporal like the rest of God’s knowledge, but He causes us to actually begin to exist at a particular point in time.


#7

[quote="Aelred_Minor, post:6, topic:335594"]
If we want to bring it to the level of God's knowledge, then that is something outside of time. God in His omniscience knows about every person who could possibly come into existence, including that finite number whom He wills to actually cause to come into existence. But that knowledge and the granting of actual existence are two separate things. God's knowledge of Mary, and of each one of us, is atemporal like the rest of God's knowledge, but He causes us to actually begin to exist at a particular point in time.

[/quote]

Agreed. Just a different take on "existence" But, as to a "pre-incarnation" of Mary, not!


#8

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