When is an atheist a Christian?


#103

what actually is the message you are trying to get across? what is your side?

i see it as you don’t need a Savior and man alone doing good things is enough to get you to heaven even if you do not believe heaven or God exist.

correct me where i am wrong.


#104

The message is simple.

Secularism has overtaken the Church.
The Church needs to adapt.
At the moment the Church and Secularism are like ships passing., the secular ship the larger.
Now is the time to act.
If you want to save the Church you need to get the two ships to change course and follow the same course.
It requires compromise on both sides.

From what I see the Church will not change course.
The secular ship has no reason to.

It’s not my problem. I exist above both ships in a plane.


#105

Sins against the First Commandment are, by definition, specially against God, because the First Commandment concerns our relationship with God.

Non-belief is not seen by God as some kind of regular opinion, but an explicit denial of Him and His due Glory, and being that God is a higher good than any man, and deserves more than any man, to sin against Him is more heinous to sin against men.

Atheism is always a mortal sin.


#106

So you advocate disparity from your brothers. You are a true disciple…

(Luke 14 26)


#107

When I see a person attempt to speak for God, I know instantly that I’m probably listening to a person that has no idea what they’re talking about.


#108

So I take it you’re not a Christian.


#109

If being a Christian means I can speak for God; no. No I’m not.


#110

Being a Christian means you believe thousands upon thousands of men were given the authority to speak for God. So the simplistic platitude doesn’t really hold here and what you’re really saying is that you don’t like people speaking for God when you think they are wrong.

Welcome to the club. No one likes that. That’s why we argue about it and find out who’s got it right.


#111

The Church can speak for God generally, but by it’s own admission it can’t on particulars.

As the popular line goes, “We don’t know who is or isn’t in hell”.

Internalize that.

Edit: Unless, I guess, if you’re a Saint. Exception noted.


#112

So what did I say about God that you found so offensive?

I didn’t claim anyone was in Hell… I said atheism is a mortal sin. Which is supported by the Church.


#113

In order for something to be a mortal sin, these qualifications must be met:

Its subject matter must be grave.
It must be committed with full knowledge (and awareness) of the sinful action and the gravity of the offense.
It must be committed with deliberate and complete consent.

As to whether a given atheist has met all qualifications, you simply cannot know. I’d argue the vast, vast majority of atheists absolutely lack “full knowledge” and “complete consent”.

What I find offensive is when mere sacks of flesh like you and me claim to speak for God in any particular situation.

It is the ultimate arrogance.


#114

Welcome to CAF, where half the people posting have God on speed dial and know what He wants now and for the future even better than the Pope.


#115

Does that include you? :slight_smile:


#116

That’s a rather radical view, and while not necessarily unorthodox, is pretty close.

Given your understanding of the second “requirement” only Catholics would be capable of mortal sin.


#117

With greater knowledge; greater culpability.

To whom much is given, much is required.


#118

#119

Nope. If you read my posts, you might even find one from today or yesterday where I write that we, including myself, can’t possibly comprehend God.

I reckon He wants us to follow the 10 OT commandments and the 2 NT commandments, and pray. I personally choose to believe (not required for Catholics, it’s a choice) in the numerous private revelations of Jesus, Mary and the saints that tell us to pray, sacrifice and make reparation. All of these things seem to be good, reasonable activities anyway. I think even atheists would agree with most of the Commandments like thou shalt not steal and thou shalt not kill.

I defer to our Pope because as an RC, that’s what you do - plus the Popes in my lifetime have all seemed like good men to me who were sincerely trying very hard to lead the Church in a good direction, even when I disagreed with them.

But I do not claim to know what God wants outside of praying and following His Commandments. I’m just a bear. I don’t have any big knowledge of the Almighty. I don’t have any super insightful gift of scriptural or doctrinal interpretation, and I’d be highly suspicious of anyone who claimed they did.


#120

what exactly do you want changed. secularism is a big topic


#121

so does everybody go to heaven but catholics?

is there another church that believes in the levels of sin? most protestant around me don’t since all sin is forgiven. but you still have to believe.


#122

Jumping in here quite late… sorry if this was addressed.

Atheists are more than someone being unsure, or struggling with the concept of God. They deny He exists.

Jesus does explain that it’s not just those who say “Yes, Lord” or have the appearance of religious devotion, but those who do His father’s will, that will be received into His kingdom.

But this doesn’t exclude belief.

John 6
**Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to eternal life, which the Son of man will give to you; for on him has God the Father set his seal.” Then they said to him, “What must we do, to be doing the works of God?” Jesus answered them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he has sent.” **

Mark 16
And he said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation. He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

Unless the Gospel which someone heard is so vague or distorted, which most likely wouldn’t hold the conviction of God, whoever hears the message about Jesus would be condemning themselves to discard it. How can a soul be searching for God, and reject Jesus? It’s impossible.

No amount of good work can save anyone, if they reject the heart of God’s love, which is manifest in Christ.


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