When is an atheist a Christian?


Keep your friends close, your enemies closer…

Making it clear would have been in breach of that…


[quote=“Verdanty, post:36, topic:453724, full:true”]
Doesn’t matter. Actions against Gods will (Masturbation, Atheism etc) are considered vastly worse than crimes against other humans such as murder or rape. [/quote]

Any sin is against God’s will.
(Hard to elaborate when such a basic thing is misunderstood. )


@Verdanty, that’s a very ugly understanding of Catholicism. It exudes disdain. God is not mad at you, friend. Imperfect contrition is still contrition. Even fear of hell implies the acknowledgement of the evil one has done which further implies a contrite heart. That God responds to the contrite heart is the very beautiful lure of Christianity: God’s mercy and forgiveness. Yet you’re impugning it as an ugly thing, it almost looks like jealousy. God wants to forgive you too.


Sin is the failure to keep a law.

Matthew 22 36-40
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the lord thy god with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Love Thy Neighbour is a law from which all previous laws hang. Failure to keep that law is a sin. Not loving ones neighbour is as bad as not loving thy god… Question is: ‘thy god’ is whose god? Even if one were to love Lord Molech the second law would still apply.

Love thy neighbour is specific

‘Atheists are sinners. Atheists are condemned. Atheists are spiritually devoid.’ according to posts here.
‘Homosexuals are objectively disordered’, according to the Catechism. ‘Homosexuals are morally evil’ according to Benedict XV1.
That does not smack of love to me. In fact it sounds positively hateful. It is not nice. And if you perceive Love to be ‘not nice’ clearly you have missed its point.


Why are you addressing your post to me?
I was answering another poster, and whatever your point is, it doesn’t seem relevant to my response.


1)"“Sin is the failure to keep a law”" is not an adequate definition of sin.


1849 Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience; it is failure in genuine love for God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods. It wounds the nature of man and injures human solidarity. It has been defined as "an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law."121

1850 Sin is an offense against God: "Against you, you alone, have I sinned, and done that which is evil in your sight."122 Sin sets itself against God’s love for us and turns our hearts away from it. Like the first sin, it is disobedience, a revolt against God through the will to become "like gods,"123 knowing and determining good and evil. Sin is thus "love of oneself even to contempt of God."124 In this proud self- exaltation, sin is diametrically opposed to the obedience of Jesus, which achieves our salvation.125

  1. Love of God and love of neighbor are not separable, these are united in the one love, in God, who is our ultimate end. To say one is “as bad as” the other misstates the matter slightly. We are one with Christ in his mystical body and so the good of one is the good of all.


There are levels of wrong choices and behavior. Jesus told Pilate, that those who handed Him over to him have greater guilt than his own.

Some sins are worse than others.

James does Teach us that if we break one law, we violate the whole law. This might be what you are trying to say?


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Golly. Arabic civilisation was not full of positive innovation? Blimey. I think you are wrong.


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?? You didn’t even respond to my point. You’re whole response is unusually preemptive which tells me you’ve already made up your mind rather than, “by virtue of my profession I am always open to be proven wrong and I am here constantly imbibing new information…”

I’m trying to see your perspective and share mine. I corrected your false statement:

That’s simply not true. And to be honest it sounds like something a teen would argue. Don’t you want to be a little more self-critical of your positions and try to understand the true Catholic perspective? Fear of hell (and what it implies) accompanied by the act seeking reconciliation is still contrition, just not perfect. If you’re going to be intellectually honest in your writings, then shouldn’t you either acknowledge these nuances or at least attempt to engage them?

Imperfect contrition is still contrition. Has every act of sorrow been 100% self-disinterested for you?


You also mention nothing of temporal punishment nor of the Church’s acknowledgement of the state’s roll in regulating society. You’ve over-simplified Catholic teaching.


I am not sure I fully understand the question? Are you saying that you have seen atheist act like Christians? Because we as humans can have similar behaviors and yes you can meet good atheist people. Not having beliefs doesn’t mean that you won’t have good traits. I learned that by living in different places, it made me realize the country I came from was not the only right way to live.


Did those here, the Native Americans that lived and died here before the invasion of the Europeans have use for the Church?


Given the ever increasing and unbecoming “Self Righteous” attitude I see coming from both the ranks of Catholics and Protestants, I see the Atheist whether self-professed or never been churched at all that live in these peaceful villages are actually closer to Christ in actions and deeds. I see them making it Heaven a lot faster than us. I don’t see them criticizing and condemning each other. I don’t see them passing judgment on each other. Our own baggage of Self-Righteous Superiority causes us to build up a lot of wood, hay, and stubble. If each house is finite and equal, then those items are displacing the gold, silver, and precious stones. Will the “Self Righteous” ones have anything left to save them in the end?


Certainly. If the Church had been available to them, they could have made use of the Church.

But it wasn’t. So, what’s your point?


This is the reason people have updated Lewis’ trilemma to a quadrilemma.

Lord, Lunatic, Liar, or Legend?

I think most modern people would opt for Lord or Legend.

Most pre-moderns would have went for Lord or Lunatic.

Most Jews would opt for Liar or Lunatic.

Most Muslims would opt for Legend, with the caveat that he did exist, but his followers added legends onto his story.


Which atheists do you hang around?

I’ve never met one of these saintly atheists.

Most atheists I’ve met have stunk of self righteousness, they have been incredibly cruel, arrogant, prideful. Violent, lovers of vice. Liars.

Maybe I’ve just had bad luck with the godless folks I’ve had the displeasure of meeting.


An atheist is a Christian when he starts believing in Jesus and obeys andfollows Him and His teachings.


Well, perhaps you should meet me. I’m reasonably horrible, but perhaps marginally less unpleasant than those stinking, self-righteous, cruel, arrogant, prideful. violent, vicious, lying atheists you keep spending time with.

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