When Jesus was on the Cross, he gave Mary to John. Why?

#21

Oh well not to worry, I promised to go back and answer some questions they put to me, but now I suppose they think I’ve ran away.
Well if your tuned in CARM …I HAVEN’T. :banghead:

Good point, I’ve often use this in defense, have you been reading my posts somewhere, :slight_smile: and likewise would Mary have to be told that John was Her son, surely a mother would know that.

0 Likes

#22

I give up. What is CARM? (Not polite to use acronyms so that people don’t know what you’re saying. Couldn’t you use a private message instead of posting this side stuff in the thread?)

0 Likes

#23

Well, someone has to ‘splain to me the meaning of Jesus’ words at that particular time. Jesus knew he was coming back in a matter of hours, so why do we have this puzzling exchange recorded in scripture. Jesus could have done this in the forty days following his resurrection. Why did it happen right then?

Is there some OT allusion here to explain this?

Further, when we recall who Jesus says who his real mother and brothers are, it is those who believe in him. We are linked here to that earlier teaching of Jesus. It’s as if Jesus is saying, here is an example of the real people who truly believe in me, who are witnesses to my death on the cross.

0 Likes

#24

I’m sorry. CARM claims to be a Christian Forum similar to this one. The only catch is, they tend to think that Catholics are all hell-bound heathens. Not all of them, mind you. But the ones that do are rather aggressive in their anti-catholic rhetoric. What’s worse is that the moderators tend to be anti-catholic, too!

I’ve tried to spend some time there twice, and I just can’t feel the love. It’s sad trying to talk about your faith to someone who ridicules everything you believe in.

0 Likes

#25

Consider yourself lucky. Most of the Protestants I talk to ridicule what I don’t believe in.

JD

0 Likes

#26

Hi
I have also thought on this issue, and I think when Jesus was on the Cross and in great distress, he saw his mother Mary. He was loving and caring for his mother, so to comfort her he just said these words.
Otherwise, we don’t find any mention of Mary in any of the gospels as to what happened to Mary when Jesus last met in Galilee after the incidence of Crucifixion.
I believe, as I have expressed on other threads that **Jesus did not got killed on Cross **and his life was saved. From Galilee he alongwith his mother Mary he set off to far off lands in search of the lost tribes of Israel and he died in Kashmir, in India.
Thanks

Deuteronomy 18:20-22. "But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."
Because of his righteousness, Jesus prayers were heard, and he was saved from killing on Cross.
Hebrews 5:7 (NIV)
7During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears **to the one who could save him **from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.

0 Likes

#27

Then you continue to ignore the need for a Sacrifice, else the Old Covenant would still be in effect. Israel still needs to suffer the final curse from Deuteronomy.

0 Likes

#28

The OT allusion to that is that within Jewish culture, when a man who’s mother is a widow and who is the first born and head of a family is about to die, he gives his mother to the care of his family since the Jewish people were very close took care of their own. Honoring ones father and mother (Exodus 20:11) would be part of this OT obligation within the laws of the ten commandments and we know Jesus fulfilled the law and obeyed the ten commandments perfectly. Therefore if there was another biological brother of Jesus, then He would have naturally within the Jewish culture and in order to fulfill the ten commandents by honoring his mother Ex 20:11, give His mother to His biological brother(s). The interesting and underlying truth about John 19:25 is that Jesus didn’t act on grounds of cultural nor the ten commandments which tells us that when scripture speaks of Jesus’ “brothers” it must not be biological brothers but perhaps step brothers or kinsman as the word “aldephos” in Greek literally means kinsman and not strictly biological brother.

Further, when we recall who Jesus says who his real mother and brothers are, it is those who believe in him. We are linked here to that earlier teaching of Jesus. It’s as if Jesus is saying, here is an example of the real people who truly believe in me, who are witnesses to my death on the cross.

Well, we would say that you are touching differing senses within the same passage and to take a passage and just apply one meaning is not giving justice to the passage.
In a literal sense, Jesus is not saying Mary will now be Johns biological mother (this would be impossible), but Jesus is saying to John “behold your mother” which means she is his (and our) spiritual mother.those who are Jesus brothers by virtue of their being part of His mystical family.
The moral sense would be John doing the moral will of God by taking care of Mary since Jesus is going to die. Mary and John being the two people (and others) who are present at the cross would be the anagogical sense showing their faithfulness to Jesus; that they are keeping their eyes on the cross which leads to everlasting life.

0 Likes

#29

I just went to CARM to sign up, but it looks like I’m required to give a donation to join. Is that correct, or is there a free membership? I don’t understand why they don’t allow anonymous access to their forums for guests to browse and decide if it’s worth it to join. I’m proud of Catholic Answers for making this site available to everyone. Catholics have nothing to hide. :slight_smile:

0 Likes

#30

Hi
CARM is also free, but this forum is better than CARM, people here are polite and courteous.
Thanks

0 Likes

#31

Hi
The Covenant is always the same, it is only revived when a new ProphetMessenger comes. Everybody has to sacrifice for the cause of the religion. The last sentence of your post I could not understand.
Thanks

0 Likes

#32

Thanks, paarsurrey. You’re right about the people being politer here. I sent a polite e-mail to CARM about their articles on Catholicism and got an extremely rude response in which the author didn’t even bother to sign their name. I’m completely unimpressed with them after several negative interactions with their administrators and members.

0 Likes

#33

Thanks, paarsurrey. You’re right about the people being politer here. I sent a polite e-mail to CARM about their articles on Catholicism and got an extremely rude response in which the author didn’t even bother to sign their name. I’m completely unimpressed with them after having several negative experiences with their administrators and members.

0 Likes

#34

A covenenat is a covenant until one of the parties dies. Look at a marriage covenant. “Til death do you part”. Once one of the parties of a marriage dies, the widow is no longer married to the deceased. Israel and God were in a covenant. Even though Israel broke the Covenant, it was still subject to the curses. I believed Deuteronomy 28 covers the curses, sickness, exile, death, etc.

The only way Israel could be released from the Mosaic Covenant is if Israel or God dies. Well, God couldn’t die… or could he? With Jesus’ death, He released Israel from the Covenant curses and led them into a New Covenant. This is what it means when Scripture says that Jesus “took on our sins…”

0 Likes

#35

No off topic here sorry, but no I didn’t pay to sign up, I knew I was in the hornets nest when I went in there, but I always pray to the Holy Spirit before I go on forums.

Aren’t we told not to worry about what we have to say because the Holy Spirit will speak for us ?

Anyway I wish I hadn’t mentioned CARM, :o suffice to say I have a bog standard Irish education and am amongst religious scholars, which goes to prove that the Holy Spirit can work wonders, if we ask Him.
[/quote]

0 Likes

#36

Rev 12:1-2

A great sign appeared in the sky, a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. She was with child and wailed aloud in pain as she labored to give birth

Mary gave birth to all of us at the cross. Some used the fact that she was “in pain” during labor which is a curse of the Old Covenant, to argue that against her Immaculate Conception (ie: she was conceived without Original Sin)

But this pain is associated with her sufferings perfectly united with and under her Son at the foot of the Cross.

0 Likes

#37

Hi
May GodAllahYHWH bless you! You have lived 48 years on this planet, that is very good. Nevermind and never get disappointed, may be a little more research reveal to you the truth you have never thougt of.
Thanks

Deuteronomy 18:20-22. “But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”
**Because of his righteousness, Jesus prayers were heard, and he was saved from getting a cursed killing on Cross.**Hebrews 5:7 (NIV)
7During the days of Jesus’ life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with loud cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.

0 Likes

#38

Nope He wasn’t, He prayed for the Cup to pass Him by, the Cup didn’t pass Him by.

He died on the Cross in front of many wittiness’s, believers as well as unbelievers saw Him die on the Cross.

In Deuteronomy it talks about the Lord, your trying to decipher the Trinity, which you can’t.

There is only one God, please go read the Bible, especially the part where Jesus gave up His Spirit on the Cross.

And on this subject, for me at least, nuff said.:bible1:

0 Likes

#39

But not my will, but thine be done” (paraphrasing). Jesus’ prayers would NOT have saved Him from the Cross. They cemented His death on the Cross.

0 Likes

closed #40
0 Likes

DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.