When you recieved the Spirit?


#1

Im just curious to hear others experience with this topic. Was it at confirmation. Were you born again? What happened since then?

Please share if you would.


#2

I feel very strongly that the Holy Spirit entered my life in an incredible way at Confirmation. Prior to the Sacrament, I barely believed God existed, much less that the Catholic Church was right. My confirmation (or at least the study and preparation leading to it) wasn’t even my choice. My parents made me do it. However, a couple weeks before my confirmation, I had an experience that changed my view and made me want the Sacrament for myself. Very quickly after I was confirmed (not instantaneously, but over the following weeks and months), I became very interested in the Faith. I felt a desire to study Church history and teachings. I began to feel the need to defend the faith when others questioned it, and was surprised to find that I was usually able to do it. It’s been quite a few years now since then, but the Holy Spirit has continued to lead me deeper in the faith.


#3

[quote=Dr. Colossus]I feel very strongly that the Holy Spirit entered my life in an incredible way at Confirmation. Prior to the Sacrament, I barely believed God existed, much less that the Catholic Church was right. My confirmation (or at least the study and preparation leading to it) wasn’t even my choice. My parents made me do it. However, a couple weeks before my confirmation, I had an experience that changed my view and made me want the Sacrament for myself. Very quickly after I was confirmed (not instantaneously, but over the following weeks and months), I became very interested in the Faith. I felt a desire to study Church history and teachings. I began to feel the need to defend the faith when others questioned it, and was surprised to find that I was usually able to do it. It’s been quite a few years now since then, but the Holy Spirit has continued to lead me deeper in the faith.
[/quote]

If you are judging with your feelings that could be an issue. :eek:


#4

Spokenword,

You wrote: “f you are judging with your feelings that could be an issue.”

What do you mean? Dr. Colossus gives several examples that are not “judged by feelings” but with the intellect: previously, he had “barely believed God existed”, but then believed. He became interested in the faith, and demonstrated (not “felt”) that interest by doing it—studying Church history, and defending the Church. Obviously, emotion plays a role: faith is not mertely a set of propositions that we give an intellectual assent to, but is also “felt”. Both/and, not either/or.

So what exactly is your concern?


#5

[quote=Sherlock]Spokenword,

You wrote: “f you are judging with your feelings that could be an issue.”

What do you mean? Dr. Colossus gives several examples that are not “judged by feelings” but with the intellect: previously, he had “barely believed God existed”, but then believed. He became interested in the faith, and demonstrated (not “felt”) that interest by doing it—studying Church history, and defending the Church. Obviously, emotion plays a role: faith is not mertely a set of propositions that we give an intellectual assent to, but is also “felt”. Both/and, not either/or.

So what exactly is your concern?
[/quote]

Ive been told by others on this forum it is wrong to judge by our feelings. So when the DR. says that he felt or I feel are those not feelings? Are you saying its okay to judge by our feelings? :confused:


#6

[quote=SPOKENWORD]Ive been told by others on this forum it is wrong to judge by our feelings. So when the DR. says that he felt or I feel are those not feelings? Are you saying its okay to judge by our feelings? :confused:
[/quote]

I think that what is meant, at least as I see it, is that “feeling” is not what we base our judgment on, that in conjunction with that feeling, you use reason, look at history, scripture, early church fathers, etc.

That “feeling” does not mean that you personally would have an infallible interpretation of scripture for example as it would have to be measured against the rules I listed above.


#7

I received the Spirit as a teenager during my initial profession of faith and prayer to confess my belief in Jesus as the Son of God, that he paid the price for my sins and I asked God to forgive my sins. It was a power and deliberate event. I too felt the emotion of being forgiven and overwhelmed with the peace and love from God. I have never forgotten or doubted that experience.

Since then, I found the Catholic church 25 years later and have discovered an even deeper sense of the Spirit.

Chuck


#8

Spokenword,

You wrote: " Are you saying its okay to judge by our feelings?"

I think you need to re-read what I wrote. Note in particular the following: “Obviously, emotion plays a role: faith is not merely a set of propositions that we give an intellectual assent to, but is also “felt”. Both/and, not either/or.”

Get that? “Both/and”? Faith not feelings only, it’s not intellect only, it involves intellect and emotion. Also, please be aware of the different circumstances wherein intellect and emotion are used: for example, I don’t really care about how I “feel” about 2 + 2 =4. I may indeed have feelings about it, but they don’t alter the truth of the proposition. I think that this is common sense.


#9

[quote=Sherlock]Spokenword,

You wrote: " Are you saying its okay to judge by our feelings?"

I think you need to re-read what I wrote. Note in particular the following: “Obviously, emotion plays a role: faith is not merely a set of propositions that we give an intellectual assent to, but is also “felt”. Both/and, not either/or.”

Get that? “Both/and”? Faith not feelings only, it’s not intellect only, it involves intellect and emotion. Also, please be aware of the different circumstances wherein intellect and emotion are used: for example, I don’t really care about how I “feel” about 2 + 2 =4. I may indeed have feelings about it, but they don’t alter the truth of the proposition. I think that this is common sense.
[/quote]

I get it,its others that have problems with it. :thumbsup:


#10

Wow…I go to lunch for an hour and already there’s some pretty good discussion. I could give any number of rational, logical arguments for the faith. That’s not really the issue. The question was when did I receive the Holy Spirit. Well, logically I know that I received salvific grace at Baptism. It is restored at every confession I make. It is strengthened when I partake of the Eucharist. And it was made active at confirmation in the same way that the Apostles received the Spirit at Pentecost. But the question also asked about experiences. Spiritual experiences are known with the heart, not the head.


#11

First off, I dislike the term “born again”. It is a term usually used by Evangelical Christians, fundamentalists, etc., and so I associate the term with those groups.

But anyway…

I came back to the Church about 5 or 6 years ago, after many years away. I began attending Church every Sunday and all Holy Days, and went to confession. I was begining to learn more about the Faith through reading and listening to Catholic Answers. Then, about 3 years ago, I went to confession shortly before Easter, and had a very distinct experience of God’s grace. It was quite remarkable, a feeling unlike anything else. Everything the priest said to me seemed to reach right into the depths of my heart and mind in a very deep and profound way. That was the beginning of a deeper love affair with Christ and His Church.


#12

Good post, Dr. Colossus!

Yes, faith is both intellectual and emotional, but the initial question regards the experience of recieving the Holy Spirit, and, as you point out, “Spiritual experiences are known with the heart, not the head.”


#13

[quote=Dr. Colossus]Wow…I go to lunch for an hour and already there’s some pretty good discussion. I could give any number of rational, logical arguments for the faith. That’s not really the issue. The question was when did I receive the Holy Spirit. Well, logically I know that I received salvific grace at Baptism. It is restored at every confession I make. It is strengthened when I partake of the Eucharist. And it was made active at confirmation in the same way that the Apostles received the Spirit at Pentecost. But the question also asked about experiences. Spiritual experiences are known with the heart, not the head.
[/quote]

Did you FEEL it in your heart? probably YES. :thumbsup:


#14

Spokenword,

You wrote: “I get it,its others that have problems with it.”

Ummm…what others? And I’m not sure that you do get it. In fact I’m fairly sure you don’t, given your earlier comment.


#15

I guess you could call me a cradle catholic…married in the church, then after seven years of marraige went thro a civil divorce and felt I didn’t fit right at church:o …so I left.
After 20 years I walked into a church and had a very emotional confession and have been so touched by what I was missing…I fought off tears for the rest of that day as I realized what I had done all those years.:frowning:
I turely felt in my heart that I needed to come back to the one thing I loved an missed (my relationship with God) :yup:


#16

[quote=Sherlock]Spokenword,

You wrote: “I get it,its others that have problems with it.”

Ummm…what others? And I’m not sure that you do get it. In fact I’m fairly sure you don’t, given your earlier comment.
[/quote]

You are fairly sure in error but its ok. :smiley:


#17

Nice, well i also had a powerful experience when i came to know the Lord(IT WAS ACTUALLY THE FULCRUM OF MY LIFE, WHEN I WAS IN REHAB THIS LAST TIME) . I was raised Catholic, but felt forced to goto church and CCD. It was boring and monotonous. I am a recovering addict by the grace of God. And i think born again is the perfect term for that experience and the transformation that has occured as a result of the Lords presense in my life. However the Catholic church does teach that we are ‘born again’ at baptism and recieve the Holy Spirit at confirmation. This clearly didnt happen with me. Well i know that the Spirit leads us to all truth, what i dont understand is why doctrine about praying to saints, and Mary, and such, The papacy, purgatory, that my must confess our sins to a priest,etc. i mean alot of teachings of the Catholic church just dont sit right in my heart. but it sits fine in the hearts of other proclaimed Christians. Why dont they stress the importance of being baptized in the Holy Spirit, without it we are not Christians at all. And apparently not all Catholics recieve the Holy Spirit at confirmation. Am i just missing something, or what. Can someone help me out here?Can anyone relate?


#18

Anonymous_1, you bring up a lot of issues for such a short post! It would appear your difficulties are with:

Authority:

Well i know that the Spirit leads us to all truth, what i dont understand is why doctrine about praying to saints, and Mary, and such, The papacy, purgatory, that my must confess our sins to a priest,etc. i mean alot of teachings of the Catholic church just dont sit right in my heart.

Infallibility:

However the Catholic church does teach that we are ‘born again’ at baptism and recieve the Holy Spirit at confirmation. This clearly didnt happen with me.

And spirituality:

Why dont they stress the importance of being baptized in the Holy Spirit, without it we are not Christians at all.

Regarding authority, the Catholic Church is the only church that can trace its origin to the Apostles, and is the only Church that has never changed its doctrine. It has the ability to infallibly teach on matters of faith and morals because Christ promised the “the gates of Hades will not prevail against it”. And the Church has the most complete definition and theology on Baptism by the Holy Spirit of any faith in Christendom. Is there something more specific that you’d like to address?


#19

Anonymous_1,
You are confusing terms. Born again is used in the Catholic church as well as Protestant churches but it does not mean the same thing.

Born again the way Protestants (and you?) mean the moment you recognized in your heart that Christ died for you, the moment you choose to walk with God. You were “born again”. Catholics like me would say you had a born again “experience” and you finally started to accept and put to use the grace God has made available to you.

Born again in Catholic terminology happens in Baptism. We become part of God’s family. A miraculous event happens and our adoption papers are inscribed on our soul. We can walk away from our family, but we are still a member. It does not mean the moment we decide to start walking in the grace God is trying to give us.

Born again is in no way the same thing or mean the same to Catholics as it does to you right now.

As a revert, I had a born again “experience” in a Nazarene church as an adult and choose to follow Christ. Went to an Assembly of God, an Evangelical before coming back to the Catholic Church. In the Assembly I received the gift of interpretation and the gift of tongues. The Holy Spirit 100% alive in non-Catholic churches.

However, just because you did not recieve an outpouring of the Holy Spirit in the Catholic church, does not mean the Holy Spirit is not there. AT 37 I was confirmed. It was an absolutely awesome overflowing of joy and happiness. It was however, tinged with sadness for me. I saw many youth who had been confirmed in the Holy Spirit who did not choose to accept the grace made available to them. Everyone received the Holy Spirit, as I am sure you did at confirmation, and came back with a huge smile on their face. What many failed to realize was it was not joy from getting it over with, it was God touching their soul. Instead of embracing God, they let Him slip away unacknowledged not realizing what they had just received.


#20

As to the many other things you mentioned, I myself researched them while still in non-Catholic churches. First of all, your understanding of Catholic teaching doesn’t sit right with your heart, and your heart is right!

I can guareentee you that what is wrong is your **understanding **of the teachings. I will only give you one example since each of your points is a separate thread, but confession to a priest is straight from Christ. The first thing Christ did after rising from the Dead was to institute the Sacrament of Reconcilliation, Confession.

Look it up in your Bible:

John 20:22-23 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

In some churches, they will try to tell you that Christ meant go and teach forgiveness. Then why didn’t Christ say it? He said go and forgive. Not go and teach forgiveness. And why did over 1500 years of Christianity understand it to be go and forgive? Then 1500 years later we understand it meant teach forgiveness? If you want a manmade doctrine, look no further.

Only God forgives sin
**#1441 **in the catechism of the Catholic Church.
Only God forgives sins. Since he is the Son of God, Jesus says of himself, “The Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins” and exercises this divine power: “Your sins are forgiven.” (See Mk 2:5, 10; Lk 7:48) Further, by virtue of his divine authority he gives this power to men to exercise in His name. (Jn 20:21-23)

We confess our sins to God in the presence of a priest because Christ instructed us to do it this way. An easy way to understand why: A child was scared and asked their mom to stay with him. The mother replied God is with you. And the child said, but I want someone with arms. Christ knew there would be times we would need arms right here on earth to feel His love.

If you don’t have one buy a Catechism of the Catholic Church. Every time someone says Catholics believe…Look it up. Usually, the concept, (like Catholics worship Mary), is wrong and not what Catholics are supposed to believe.
God Bless


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