Where are Adam and Eve now?


#1

Are Adam and Eve in hell or purgatory now? And what happened to non-Jews who died before Christ came? Will they rise from dead and how they will be judged?


#2

They’re in our imaginations, because they never existed.


#3

So far as I’m aware, we don’t know. Genesis 5 is silent on the relationships Adam and his progeny had with God when they died, and I don’t believe (though I could easily be mistaken) that the Church has canonized either of them.

And what happened to non-Jews who died before Christ came? Will they rise from dead and how they will be judged?

This is conjecture, but I would assume that the Church’s teaching about what happens to non-Christians applies here. Our salvation is the result of an existing relationship with God, who is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. The Church has taught that such a relationship is possible outside of physical membership in the Catholic Church (see, e.g., Lumen Gentium 16). I would guess that one could cooperate with the God of the Jews in the same way and end up in heaven after Jesus’ death opened its gates.

That’s just a guess, though. So far as I know, there’s no definitive teaching on what happened to non-Israelites before Christ.


#4

Israel was created to be a “light to the Gentiles.” Israel wasn’t big on conversion, but a number of its moral laws were replicated in the laws of the nations around it. God’s purpose in Israel was fulfilled.

Remember also the story of Jonah, which reveals how God cares for non-Israelites more clearly than any other case in the Old Testament.

The Church teaches that people who never had the knowledge of salvation presented to them can be saved if they were seeking to do God’s will with what little information they had. This would cover non-Israelites prior to Christ, just as it covers the Native North Americans before Columbus.

As for Adam and Eve, I don’t think there is any official teaching on their eternal fate.

You aren’t a Catholic, are you? This is absolutely contrary to Church teaching.


#5

First of all the Son always existed, so there was no time prior to Him. He wasn’t created at the incarnation, He simply was born and took on human form. So Moses, and all the prophets didn’t live “before” He existed. God is outside of time, He was, is and will be. All men who go to heaven go thru the Son, even if they never have heard of Him.

Welcome to the Forum


#6

Most likely in Heaven. This ancient homily for Holy Saturday (which is part of the Church’s Office of Readings for that day) gives the clue:

THE LORD DESCENDS INTO HELL

Something strange is happening – there is a great silence on earth today, a great silence and stillness. The whole earth keeps silence because the King is asleep. The earth trembled and is still because God has fallen asleep in the flesh and he has raised up all who have slept ever since the world began. God has died in the flesh and hell trembles with fear.
He has gone to search for our first parent, as for a lost sheep. Greatly desiring to visit those who live in darkness and in the shadow of death, he has gone to free from sorrow the captives Adam and Eve, he who is both God and the son of Eve. The Lord approached them bearing the cross, the weapon that had won him the victory. At the sight of Him Adam, the first man he had crated, struck his breast and cried out to everyone: “My Lord be with you all.” Christ answered him: “And with your spirit.” He took him by the hand and raised him up, saying: “Awake, O sleeper, and rise from the dead, and Christ will give you light.”
I am your God, who for your sake have become your son. Out of love for you and for your descendants I now by my own authority command all who are held in bondage to come forth, all who are in darkness to be enlightened, all who are sleeping to arise. I order you, O sleeper, to awake. I did not create you to be held a prisoner in hell. Rise from the dead, for I am the life of the dead. Rise up, work of my hands, you who were created in my image. Rise, let us leave this place, for you are in me and I am in you; together we form only one person and we cannot be separated.
For your sake I, your God, became your son; I, the Lord, took the form of a slave; I, whose home is above the heavens, descended to the earth and beneath the earth. For your sake, for the sake of man, I became like man without help, free among the dead. For the sake of you, who left a garden, I was betrayed to the Jews in a garden, and I was crucified in a garden.
See on my face the spittle I received in order to restore to you the life I once breathed into you. See there the marks of the blows I received in order to refashion your warped nature in my image. On my back see the marks of the scourging I endured to remove the burden of sin that weighs upon your back. See my hands, nailed firmly to a tree, for you who once wickedly stretched out your hand to a tree.
I slept on the cross and a sword pierced my side for you who slept in paradise and brought forth Eve from your side. My side has healed the pain in yours. My sleep will rouse you from your sleep in hell. The sword that pierced me has sheathed the sword that was turned against you.
Rise, let us leave this place. The enemy led you out of the earthly paradise. I will not restore you to that paradise, but I will enthrone you in heaven. I forbade you the tree that was only a symbol of life, but see, I who am life itself am now one with you. I appointed cherubim to guard you as slaves are guarded, but now I make them worship you as God. The throne formed by cherubim awaits you, its bearers swift and eager. The bridal chamber is adorned, the banquet ready, the eternal dwelling places are prepared, the treasure houses of all good things lie open. The kingdom of heaven has been prepared for you from all eternity.


#7

Look around the world, we are Adam and Eve.


#8

I like that one, but we’re not dead yet, at least our flesh is still alive.
That ancient homily for Holy Saturday mentioned by FCEGM lead me to Harrowing of Hell , Christ descended into Hell and releasing Hell’s captives, particularly Adam and Eve, and the righteous men and women of Old Testament times.

But in some sense we’re Adam and Eve…I’ll make it my signature:thumbsup:


#9

I read somewhere that when Jesus died for us, Adam and Eve were allowed to finally enter Heaven.


#10

Yes, they are in heaven. At least, that is the traditional presumption. There are old icons portraying Christ pulling Adam and Eve out of hell.

That being the case, it puts a real wrinkle in the idea that innocent babes could possibly be condemned for Original Sin. The perpetrators of that sin, the really culpable ones, are in heaven.

[LEFT]Paradoxical.
[/LEFT]


#11

Yes, they are in heaven. At least, that is the traditional presumption. There are old icons portraying Christ pulling Adam and Eve out of hell. In the East this idea is particularly strong.

That being the case, it puts a real wrinkle in the idea that innocent babes could possibly be condemned for Original Sin. The perpetrators of that sin, the really culpable ones, are in heaven.

Paradoxical.


#12

Not really. It all depends on the will. If the will of the innocent babies is to follow God (to whatever extent this is possible, given his presence in their lives), they will be saved. If their wills reject him, they aren’t innocent and bring on themselves damnation.

It’s impossible for us to know what’s going on in the souls of people in that stage of life. They may not be able to commit sin in the womb, but it is quite possible that they might experience to some degree and accept or reject the presence of God.


#13

What business is this of yours?
You are asking the wrong questions. It’s enough to know we all die, and all that is hidden will be revealed.


#14

Isn’t original sin of innocent babies removed also by parents will , Baptism by Desire ?


#15

I don’t know how that works.


#16

te-deum.blogspot.com/2008/07/q-can-unborn-unbaptized-babies-have.html
Unbaptized or unborn children of parents who intended to have them baptized …]could be considered baptized by desire. This is why canon law affords them a funeral.
I’ve seen such funerals by myslef


#17

Cool :).


#18

Then you are back to Augustine’s double-predestination.

Children cannot choose their parents, God can.


#19

This kind of speculation is unwarranted.

We are now speculating on the possibility of the will of people in that stage of life to accept or reject God. What a high standard we have set.

They are children of God, innocent as flowers, and we are speculating that they could be damned before they could even cry out their first word.

And the rationale for this is Adam’s First Sin? The sin of a man in heaven this very day?


#20

First of all, with Adam, all humanity sinned, so no children in the womb are “innocent as flowers.” The only ones of whom that could be said were Mary and Jesus. Children in the womb are stained by Original Sin.

The idea that children that die in the womb go to Hell or Limbo is ancient, going back a long way in Church tradition. St. Augustine, for one, said that all children who died without baptism go to Hell, but later the Church modified this with the idea of Limbo. It’s at least as much speculation to say they all the unborn dead go to Heaven as it is to say that perhaps some go to Heaven and some to Hell. In fact, the speculation that all of them go into Heaven has less foundation on Church tradition than does what I’m suggesting.

To what extent the unborn can feel the presence of God is unclear. We know that they have Free Will, so logically, if they can detect the presence of God on some level, they can either reject or accept it. The Church teaches that people who die in ignorance of Christianity go to Heaven or Hell depending on their reaction to the truth of God as far as it is clear to them.


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