Where are the negative effects of sexual sin?


#1

So I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I would like to start by saying I fully support the teachings of the Church in all areas regarding sexual sin; I recognized that I needed to when I first started converting, and while it was a slow process to convince myself, through the grace of God I did.

My question is why, unlike certain other sins such as drug usage, people can live their whole lives in sexual sin without apparent negative consequences? I have seen heterosexual couples who refuse to marry and have had sex for years with their bf/gf, birthing children out of wedlock, and yet they are completely happy in their lives and have been for years. Likewise, I have seen gay couples who have been in happy sexual relationships for 50+ years.

So why aren't there negative effects that happen for these couples? Is the negative effect supposed to be the knowledge that they are sinning, and if so, how can they possibly have that either if they've calloused their conscience? :confused:

I do believe that dying in a state of mortal sin will lead you to Hell. What I don't understand is why God doesn't make it apparent to these couples through negative side effects...


#2

It presents itself differently. Alcohol effects you physically and presents it's misuse likewise.

Sexual sins effect the way we love......they too do present their negativities just as well however, they present more internal problems. They present to the degree they are able to break down a persons will, mind and heart. But they WILL present.

Sometimes to a degree sooo profane. Case in point.......that guy they just sentenced to a life+1,000 years in prision a couple days ago. Who confessed to being serverley addicted to pornography and played it out by kidnapping 3 girls and holding for years.

We see these sins destroy relationships, marriages and families, enslave the mind and heart of individuals OR harden their hearts and make them have a harder time to authentically love.


#3

You can't compare sexual immorality to anything other than itself, because it is its own enigma, however I believe it is more useful to compare it to avarice than it is to compare it to alcoholism.

Suppose there is a shrewdly uncharitable man (let's say the story of the Rich Man in the gospel) that lives his life focused on hording and compounding his already inherited wealth, much akin to the idle aristocracy of the Spanish Empire that ultimately led to its decay. Is avarice going to cause somebody immediate physical damage in the way that drug abuse is? No, in fact it can make the person healthier. They can live a more comfortable life, receive better treatment, and die comfortable, normally living significantly longer than somebody that lived a harsher life in poverty. So what are the corporal consequences related to avarice? It is in the far-reaching consequences of having members of society that show no generosity and can become miniature black holes within their society. So if we take this and go back to the area of sexual morality, you correctly pointed out that there are plenty of people living in long-term relationships and are happy with it. The more far-reaching consequences to this kind of non-sacred attitude towards human sexuality are happening to us as we speak. Relationships are viewed as expendable and non-binding, thus the divorce rate has skyrocketed. Millions of children are suffering the disadvantage of being raised in a single parent home, or being traded from parent to parent like a bargaining chip. The people themselves no longer enjoy the trust that committed spouses once had. In many places the population demographics are collapsing. People are more isolated than ever before as the basic family unit has deteriorated. I believe that sexual immorality is indirectly the primary factor for why the West as a whole has been experiencing an ongoing crisis for several years, though it would be very contentious to point that out.

I actually think the negative consequences of not treating human sexuality as sacred are fairly obvious in the right environment, however Western people suffer a lot of propaganda on the issue that obstructs a person's judgement and makes them fearful of appearing cold and antiquated for having such a view, so this is why it can be hard to acknowledge. Rising powers such as Russia and India do not share the West's view on this.


#4

St. Paul writes that every other sin we commit is outside the body, but sexual sins affect the body. The homosexual acts cause the doers to receive in their own persons the just penalty of their sins. He asks whether a man of God should join himself to a prostitute, given that "the two shall become one flesh".

If you're not married and living in sin, you're fornicating. I believe each act damages us further.

When we appear before Christ for judgement, all those joined to us will be apparent to all, unless He has forgiven it I guess.

God admonishes every son He receives/loves, but there are many who will take their sins to judgement.


#5

Sexual sin has seriously undermined our entire society and threatens to destroy it. Read this book for the documentation.


#6

[quote="SMGS127, post:1, topic:335071"]
So I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I would like to start by saying I fully support the teachings of the Church in all areas regarding sexual sin; I recognized that I needed to when I first started converting, and while it was a slow process to convince myself, through the grace of God I did.

My question is why, unlike certain other sins such as drug usage, people can live their whole lives in sexual sin without apparent negative consequences? I have seen heterosexual couples who refuse to marry and have had sex for years with their bf/gf, birthing children out of wedlock, and yet they are completely happy in their lives and have been for years. Likewise, I have seen gay couples who have been in happy sexual relationships for 50+ years.

So why aren't there negative effects that happen for these couples? Is the negative effect supposed to be the knowledge that they are sinning, and if so, how can they possibly have that either if they've calloused their conscience? :confused:

I do believe that dying in a state of mortal sin will lead you to Hell. What I don't understand is why God doesn't make it apparent to these couples through negative side effects...

[/quote]

I think the biggest effect is that it makes us slaves to our passions rather than reason. If we live according to reason, we will use sexuality the way it should be used. Reason tells us that the natural use of our sexual powers is open to new life. Reason tells us that sexuality should be reserved for a life-long committed relationship because otherwise there is the risk of serious hurt to another person and bringing a child into the world without a committed mother and father.
Committing sexual sins means taking the pleasure of the act and making it more important than the reasonable use of the act. Letting our passions control us is bad in itself but it can lead to other bad consequences morally, emotionally, and practically in other areas of life.

Second, I'd say that since the sexual revolution there have been all sorts of negative effects of sexual sin. Maybe not in each and every case, but collectively in society. Look at abortion, certainly the thought that 4000 children are slaughtered each and every day is a horrible thing. Then remember that almost all of these could have been prevented with chastity. Seldom are there abortions where the child is conceived from a married man and woman in a "divorce is not an option" relationship while being open to life.

Look at how women are treated like objects rather than people to cherish and love. Look how we have degraded motherhood and made it somehow an undignified slavery...instead of the great job that it is! We all need mothers and we should love and respect what they do, as mothers!

Look at the divorce rates. Look at the children born out of wedlock. These familes are much more likely to be impoverished


#7

Here they are:

leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/epid-std.html

cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/HIV-and-AIDS-in-America-A-Snapshot-508.pdf

All of these diseases are preventable by human action.

Note that no form of artificial birth control in the form of a pill, condom, IUD, foam or barrier is 100% effective. Note the failure rates:

cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/UnintendedPregnancy/Contraception.htm

And then there is the spiritual and psychological damage caused by abortion:

silentnomoreawareness.org/about/

The moral dimensions of sexual sin are obvious to all practicing Catholics since we are all called to holiness. Sins of the flesh have been gradually encouraged over the past 40 years by the media.

Peace,
Ed


#8

What are the positive affects of sexual sin?


#9

[quote="TK421, post:3, topic:335071"]
You can't compare sexual immorality to anything other than itself, because it is its own enigma, however I believe it is more useful to compare it to avarice than it is to compare it to alcoholism.

Suppose there is a shrewdly uncharitable man (let's say the story of the Rich Man in the gospel) that lives his life focused on hording and compounding his already inherited wealth, much akin to the idle aristocracy of the Spanish Empire that ultimately led to its decay. Is avarice going to cause somebody immediate physical damage in the way that drug abuse is? No, in fact it can make the person healthier. They can live a more comfortable life, receive better treatment, and die comfortable, normally living significantly longer than somebody that lived a harsher life in poverty. So what are the corporal consequences related to avarice? It is in the far-reaching consequences of having members of society that show no generosity and can become miniature black holes within their society. So if we take this and go back to the area of sexual morality, you correctly pointed out that there are plenty of people living in long-term relationships and are happy with it. The more far-reaching consequences to this kind of non-sacred attitude towards human sexuality are happening to us as we speak. Relationships are viewed as expendable and non-binding, thus the divorce rate has skyrocketed. Millions of children are suffering the disadvantage of being raised in a single parent home, or being traded from parent to parent like a bargaining chip. The people themselves no longer enjoy the trust that committed spouses once had. In many places the population demographics are collapsing. People are more isolated than ever before as the basic family unit has deteriorated. I believe that sexual immorality is indirectly the primary factor for why the West as a whole has been experiencing an ongoing crisis for several years, though it would be very contentious to point that out.

I actually think the negative consequences of not treating human sexuality as sacred are fairly obvious in the right environment, however Western people suffer a lot of propaganda on the issue that obstructs a person's judgement and makes them fearful of appearing cold and antiquated for having such a view, so this is why it can be hard to acknowledge. Rising powers such as Russia and India do not share the West's view on this.

[/quote]

Sexual immorality concerns more than having sex outside of marriage.

When sex is treated as a plaything, it's nature is distorted, and the idea of having children is viewed as an impediment to all the "fun." Much less actually getting married for life.

When abortion is allowed - killing a baby in the womb - for non-critical reasons, all human life is at risk. Millions are dead and the numbers keep growing. That 'bundle of joy,' 'that gift from God' becomes a blob of tissue or 'not a person.'

Now they're talking about post-birth abortion, which is irrational. Call it what it is - baby-killing.

And euthanasia. That man or woman has no "quality of life" so just kill him or her. We need hospital beds for paying patients. You know, turnover.

Who decides when you have sex? You do.

Peace,
Ed


#10

[quote="edwest2, post:9, topic:335071"]
Sexual immorality concerns more than having sex outside of marriage.

When sex is treated as a plaything, it's nature is distorted, and the idea of having children is viewed as an impediment to all the "fun." Much less actually getting married for life.

When abortion is allowed - killing a baby in the womb - for non-critical reasons, all human life is at risk. Millions are dead and the numbers keep growing. That 'bundle of joy,' 'that gift from God' becomes a blob of tissue or 'not a person.'

Now they're talking about post-birth abortion, which is irrational. Call it what it is - baby-killing.

And euthanasia. That man or woman has no "quality of life" so just kill him or her. We need hospital beds for paying patients. You know, turnover.

Who decides when you have sex? You do.

Peace,
Ed

[/quote]

Gee can't wait until it can become retro-active

Worse yet your flesh decides the matter. This is what it means by enslavement one is a slave to the flesh or the spirit.


#11

[quote="bsroufek, post:4, topic:335071"]
When we appear before Christ for judgement, all those joined to us will be apparent to all, unless He has forgiven it I guess.

God admonishes every son He receives/loves, but there are many who will take their sins to judgement.

[/quote]

So are you arguing that our punishment is set to come after death only then?

[quote="edwest2, post:7, topic:335071"]
Here they are:

leaderu.com/orgs/probe/docs/epid-std.html

cdc.gov/nchhstp/newsroom/docs/HIV-and-AIDS-in-America-A-Snapshot-508.pdf

All of these diseases are preventable by human action.

Note that no form of artificial birth control in the form of a pill, condom, IUD, foam or barrier is 100% effective. Note the failure rates:

cdc.gov/reproductivehealth/UnintendedPregnancy/Contraception.htm

And then there is the spiritual and psychological damage caused by abortion:

silentnomoreawareness.org/about/

The moral dimensions of sexual sin are obvious to all practicing Catholics since we are all called to holiness. Sins of the flesh have been gradually encouraged over the past 40 years by the media.

Peace,
Ed

[/quote]

[quote="TomD123, post:6, topic:335071"]
Second, I'd say that since the sexual revolution there have been all sorts of negative effects of sexual sin. Maybe not in each and every case, but collectively in society. Look at abortion, certainly the thought that 4000 children are slaughtered each and every day is a horrible thing. Then remember that almost all of these could have been prevented with chastity. Seldom are there abortions where the child is conceived from a married man and woman in a "divorce is not an option" relationship while being open to life.

Look at how women are treated like objects rather than people to cherish and love. Look how we have degraded motherhood and made it somehow an undignified slavery...instead of the great job that it is! We all need mothers and we should love and respect what they do, as mothers!

Look at the divorce rates. Look at the children born out of wedlock. These familes are much more likely to be impoverished

[/quote]

I wanted to respond to both of these together. Why do you two consider abortion to be a sexual sin? Isn't the act of murder is separate from the sin that created the life? And I do agree that STDs are indicative of moral punishment, but how come those who wait to fornicate until their fiancees have no punishment? They are still committing a sin.

Also, Tom, I don't understand the supposed "punishment" our culture treats being a mom to be either. That's what I want my vocation to be most in life :o.

[quote="holyfamily1, post:8, topic:335071"]
What are the positive affects of sexual sin?

[/quote]

Well...this is true in a way, but certainly I've met long-term gay couples or fornicating couples who would argue that they are completely happy and are happier committing the sin than if they stopped. One's faith alone is sufficient not to do these behaviors, but why are there not temporal punishments for each sinner?


#12

I don’t know if the couple is totally happy with their arrangement. I have heard when a couple move in together the woman thinks—“oh good he means to marry me someday” and the man thinks----“oh good I won’t need to marry her now.”

They certainly aren’t on the same page so I don’t know how they can be happy. My niece has lived with her BF for awhile now and she is talking marriage, he won’t budge. Will they be together for the long run, I doubt it. Luckily they do not have children or want them.


#13

[quote="SMGS127, post:1, topic:335071"]
So I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I would like to start by saying I fully support the teachings of the Church in all areas regarding sexual sin; I recognized that I needed to when I first started converting, and while it was a slow process to convince myself, through the grace of God I did.

My question is why, unlike certain other sins such as drug usage, people can live their whole lives in sexual sin without apparent negative consequences? I have seen heterosexual couples who refuse to marry and have had sex for years with their bf/gf, birthing children out of wedlock, and yet they are completely happy in their lives and have been for years. Likewise, I have seen gay couples who have been in happy sexual relationships for 50+ years.

So why aren't there negative effects that happen for these couples? Is the negative effect supposed to be the knowledge that they are sinning, and if so, how can they possibly have that either if they've calloused their conscience? :confused:

I do believe that dying in a state of mortal sin will lead you to Hell. What I don't understand is why God doesn't make it apparent to these couples through negative side effects...

[/quote]

Faith involves leaving judgement of this sort to God. You probably also know many blameless chaste people who suffer from the loneliness of singlehood or the grief of loveless marriage despite their obedience and faithfulness to Church teaching. When St Ignatius Loyola defined 'consolations' and 'desolations', they did not correlate with what made one feel *great or *feel yuk... but what drew one nearer or distanced him from God. Sometimes suffering is a consolation whilst pleasure is a desolation. We have to learn to think of these things in accordance with Gods will for us.


#14

yes in the end...............the great equalizer is death. No matter what people get away with (and mind you....ignorance to a sin can be a shield for some people in some cases).....we ALL face death......the criminal that starts their punishment now on earth and those that seem to "fall through the cracks".

"vengeance is mine says the lord" in scripture.

He is sooo patient with us .....sometimes we can skirt by over and over in life....but he has an eternity to "punish".

Also, you may not see how he treats the ignorant throughout life. The crosses he permits etc etc..... sometimes these struggles come with nudges by the lord to make a person stop and re-evaluate their lives.


#15

So suppose we were to look at people who run immoral investment schemes for a living, or, say, a drug dealer who doesn't use drugs himself, a kingpin. We might see that this person lives a luxurious lifestyle, has fine taste in music and art, appears relaxed and happy most of the time, and apparently has few worries. If we could see into their soul, there might be no major suffering or misery there.

This is why Job cried out "Why do the wicked prosper?" And he persisted in bugging God about it until God answered him.

Now, in the case of sexual sin, it's worth realizing something, though. In the case of long-term relationships, there is a natural good we are dealing with here. Committed relationships between unmarried couples (straight or gay) have something going for them, because they provide companionship and friendship, which is something we need. I have a hard time believing that these relationships are fueled by nothing other than lust, although lust is what makes them sinful.

In many cases, I think the people who live the most rewarding sinful lives are those who don't have any real idea that what they're doing is sinful. I mean, sure, they might know the Church's rules, but they don't understand them -- or rather, they don't know God, so the rules have no ooomph to them.

Now the key point here is not that, if these people came to know Christ, their lives would be better. It's true that they would identify some natural evil, and have the power to avoid the consequences of that evil. But things happen in life.

The key point, rather, is that our lives are not meant for ourselves. Perhaps our lives will be happy and rewarding, but if we focus our lives on being happy and rewarded, this will poison us. Sexuality is intrinsically life-giving. When we live the Truth in our sexual lives, we often find that we suddenly have a bunch of kids running around at our heels; and marriage relationships are no longer about "me" and "you" -- they are about the life of the world, and sharing the life-giving love that we have with others.

Happiness and holiness naturally go together, but we don't live in a state of nature (Eden). In our world, they separate sometimes. And trust me, Satan sets us certain unapologetic sinners in their worldly happiness because he wants to tempt us. But God uses even this temptation to work all things for the good of those who love Him.

Oh, and you could also feel free to start bugging God about it persistently, like Job did. He still answers prayers, even complaints! :thumbsup:


#16

[quote="SMGS127, post:1, topic:335071"]
So I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I would like to start by saying I fully support the teachings of the Church in all areas regarding sexual sin; I recognized that I needed to when I first started converting, and while it was a slow process to convince myself, through the grace of God I did.

My question is why, unlike certain other sins such as drug usage, people can live their whole lives in sexual sin without apparent negative consequences? I have seen heterosexual couples who refuse to marry and have had sex for years with their bf/gf, birthing children out of wedlock, and yet they are completely happy in their lives and have been for years. Likewise, I have seen gay couples who have been in happy sexual relationships for 50+ years.

So why aren't there negative effects that happen for these couples? Is the negative effect supposed to be the knowledge that they are sinning, and if so, how can they possibly have that either if they've calloused their conscience? :confused:

I do believe that dying in a state of mortal sin will lead you to Hell. What I don't understand is why God doesn't make it apparent to these couples through negative side effects...

[/quote]

The negative effect is just what you have stated...but if you want an answer as to the natural, look around.

AIDS, STD, Herpes, broken relationships, regrets, sexual memories of people you don't want, fear of pregnancy leading to more stress, abortion and regret, pornography addiction, serial killings, rape.....nah I think there are plenty of natural regrets with sexual immorality.

Not everyone who steals or lies pays the penalty on earth. That's karma and karma is a foreign concept to Christianity.


#17

Abortion is not a sexual sin? Did the pregnant woman become pregnant by herself? And where was the man when it happened? In another room? If there is no sexual intercourse then there is zero reason for abortion.

Radical feminists told all women, starting in the 1970s, that you - all women - were the victims of men. Get out of the house and get money and power. What’s being a mom going to get you? Losing 18 of the best years of your life? Get POWER! And if you wanna have a kid, what? You’re going to enjoy the dirty diapers and watching it all the time? And when it’s old enough, dump it in daycare, and when it gets a little older, then give it a key. Mommy’s too busy overthrowing the patriarchy. As it gets older, just throw food and clothes in its general direction. And then, 18 and OUT! Oh, what a wonderful feeling. It’s an adult now - Not - MY - PROBLEM - anymore.

God have mercy,

Ed


#18

[quote="SMGS127, post:1, topic:335071"]
So I've been thinking about this a lot lately. I would like to start by saying I fully support the teachings of the Church in all areas regarding sexual sin; I recognized that I needed to when I first started converting, and while it was a slow process to convince myself, through the grace of God I did.

My question is why, unlike certain other sins such as drug usage, people can live their whole lives in sexual sin without apparent negative consequences? I have seen heterosexual couples who refuse to marry and have had sex for years with their bf/gf, birthing children out of wedlock, and yet they are completely happy in their lives and have been for years. Likewise, I have seen gay couples who have been in happy sexual relationships for 50+ years.

So why aren't there negative effects that happen for these couples? Is the negative effect supposed to be the knowledge that they are sinning, and if so, how can they possibly have that either if they've calloused their conscience? :confused:

I do believe that dying in a state of mortal sin will lead you to Hell. What I don't understand is why God doesn't make it apparent to these couples through negative side effects...

[/quote]

I think there are negative effects, even if they are not outwardly visible. At the same time, we don't know these people's life circumstances. We don't know what led them to homosexual behavior or believing that one does not need to marry in order to have a family. In our sex-ridden culture where anything goes, we could venture to guess that some of these people may not be in the state of mortal sin based on their own ignorance of sin. For a sin to be mortal it has to have all 3 of the circumstances - 1. a Grave Matter, 2. Full Knowledge, and 3. Full Consent.

In many circumstances, I believe that 2 and 3 are not fulfilled entirely, and thereby lessening the sin to only venial. They will still suffer the effects of sin and its natural consequences, however.
However happy they may seem, there is always some suffering whether hidden or apparent. I have never met a truly happy homosexual. They may appear to be happy, but underneath there is some unmet need, loneliness, depression, low-self esteem that ails them.

The same with unmarried couples living together. They may seem happy on the front, but are they really happy and at peace? People appear happy and great all the time, only to discover some hidden suffering later on. Many times abusive families give the appearance of being perfect, until their secret is revealed years down the road.

I can tell you from personal experience, there ARE indeed negative effects of sexual sin, but for me, they manifested themselves after I started trying to live a chaste life.


#19

[quote="SMGS127, post:11, topic:335071"]

I wanted to respond to both of these together. Why do you two consider abortion to be a sexual sin? Isn't the act of murder is separate from the sin that created the life? And I do agree that STDs are indicative of moral punishment, but how come those who wait to fornicate until their fiancees have no punishment? They are still committing a sin.

Also, Tom, I don't understand the supposed "punishment" our culture treats being a mom to be either. That's what I want my vocation to be most in life :o.

[/quote]

Abortion is not a sexual sin. It is the sin of murder. However, it is certainly the result of sexual sins. People who have abortions often got pregnant during some sort of sexual sin. Sexual sin teaches people not to value what brings forth new life.

STDs are not a punishment for each and every person who commit sexual sins. It is not as though God is sitting there handing out temporal punishments based on every sin, tit for tat like that. God's justice is of course appeased in the end. The way I understood your question however wasn't about temporal punishment but more about negative effects in general and why sexual sin is harmful. STDs is one of many reasons but not the only one and it doesn't apply in every case or even most cases of course.

What I was saying about mothers is this: One negative effect of sexual sin is the degrading of womanhood, femininity, and fertility. This is what sexual sin has done, specifically the sexual revolution as a whole by teaching that birth control is a must and that kind of thing. This itself is an affront to the value of a mother. Mothers are of course essential and beyond any value! Unfortunately, it seems to me, that the culture we live in does not recognize this. I think the reason we do not recognize this is because of sexual sin.

I don't mean that God is somehow doing the punishing, I mean that the direct result of our culture's sex-crazed fanaticism is ugly and that includes how mothers are too often looked down on and not given the credit they deserve. For example, some people act as though what a woman does as a mother in the home is worthless and if she does not work or works less than her husband she is being mistreated or something. But this is the wrong way to approach things because what a mother does in the home is far more dignified and valuable than anything she or anyone else could do outside of the home.


#20

The biggest negative effect of sexual sin is forgetting how to love. I would know all about that unfortunately. I had premarital sex with two girlfriends in my life. In both cases, we loved each other a ton and thought we were each others soul mate. But not too long after we had sex, they said I wasn’t the same. They both left me and are now happier then ever with their new boyfriends and for a while I tried to find someone to blame; when in reality there is no one to blame but me. I confessed to these sins at confession a few weeks ago finally and am doing penance. But I know for the rest of my life, I’ll always remember that my own sexual sins ended up losing two people I loved. :frowning:


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