Where did Enoch go?

#21

Who said anything about human condition. You must be answering someone else’s question.

The point is they did NOT get into Heaven until Christ opened the gates.

Note again the Church teaching:

CCC 637 In his human soul united to his divine person, the dead Christ went down to the realm of the dead. He opened Heaven’s gates for the just who had gone before him.

It is not conditional and does not say…He opened the gates for the just who had gone before him (except for Enoch and Elijah for whom he made an exception).

Stick to what the Church teaches. Speculation is a waste of time.

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#22

Hi!

…again, what happened?

I’m fully Catholic; I do not believe that man can engineer a “new body of Christ” whenever he deems fit… but there are questions that even the CCC does not answer…

…what you’ve quoted is a response to what is the norm of Resurrection… it cannot define God’s Functions or those Mysteries which remain Mysteries because God has not decided to make Full Revelation.

Enoch was alive and so was Elijah when they were taken… where is the Scriptural passage/CCC citation that states what transpired from point A (when they were taken) to point B (where they are): were they fully flesh, were their bodies changed into gloried bodies (as Christ’s after the Resurrection)?

It has not been Revealed!

Maran atha!

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#23

We know they did NOT go to Heaven before Christ opened the gates of Heaven. The place the just before Christ went was the Limbo of the Fathers. It is irrelevant what their bodies were. Why does that matter?

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#24

We know they did NOT go to Heaven before Christ opened the gates of Heaven. The place the just before Christ went was the Limbo of the Fathers. It is irrelevant what their bodies were. Why does that matter?

Its like people asking if Mary died or not before being assumed. It is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter if she died first or not.

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#25

The best answer to give people about Enoch is what the Bible itself has to say. In Hebrews 11:5 it says: “It was because of his Faith that Enoch was taken up and did not have to experience death: he was not to be found because God had taken him. This was because before his assumption it is attested that he pleased God.”

Sounds pretty explicit, no? Enoch did not die and was assumed into heaven. But wait, we must read on to verse 13: (after listing Abel, Enoch, Noah, & Abraham) “ALL these died in Faith, before receiving any of the things that had been promised…”

and still further to verse 39

"These (ALL of the biblical saints that the author of Hebrews has just enumerated, beginning with Abel) are ALL heroes of Faith, but they did NOT receive what was promised, since God had made provision for US to have something better, and they were not to reach perfection [heaven] except with us.

So it says right in the Bible what happened to Enoch: he died in Faith.

Yet at the same time is says he did not experience death and was assumed into heaven. The Bible does not contradict itself. But there is more than one death. The death of the body is just accounted as sleep, but the death of the soul, is the death to be feared. Just as heaven in the OT was not the Christian Heaven revealed by Jesus Christ.

So the doctrine of the Church (as always) has its roots in Sacred Scripture. Enoch died, so did Elijah and Moses, and all the rest of the sons and daughters of Adam, including our own Redeemer and Savior, and Blessed Mother.

(Bible quotes from the Jerusalem Bible, with my own emphasis added)

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#26

Here’s all of the above:)

catholicessentials.net/limbo.htm

GBY

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#27

I’m sure if oxygen were required God would provide.

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#28

This says the Limbo of the Fathers is where the souls go. Not their bodies. Thistle?

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#29

Obviously if they were recognizable as human beings, then for all 3, there was something corresponding to the familiar human body.

ICXC NIKA

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#30

Why wouldn’t there be oxygen?

No-one assumes that the place of human eschatology is in the “skies” where breathing is impossible. If the “afterlife body” requires breath, God will provide, as He would for the natural human body.

We don’t even know that the bodies of these beings experienced time as we know it. Without time, there would be no entropy, and so no need to breathe.

ICXC NIKA

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#31

OK:D

AGREED, where did I say something differently my friend?

GBY

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#32

Hi, Eddie!

…recognized by whom?

Maran atha!

Angel

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#33

Well, by the Disciples, at least

ICXC NIKA

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#34

Hi, Eddie!

…yes, I thought that that was where you were heading…

We must consider several factors: a) It is a Vision (this is Granted by the Holy Spirit), b) there were no physical description or depiction of them, and c) they had been far removed from the Disciples’ lifetime.

So they were recognized though the means of the Holy Spirit not through human means.

Maran atha!

Angel

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closed #35
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