Where did the Nicene Creed go?


#1

Something happened at Mass today that was a little demoralizing. The Creed was not said during Mass this morning. Isn’t the creed something that is supposed to be said? Would this be considered liturgical abuse? Is this commonplace among other Catholic Churches? I have been to around five different Churches and never once have I seen this.


#2

Keep hope alive. The Nicene Creed will be returned in the Latin Mass.

I’ll go so far as to predict the prayer to St. Michael, the Archangel will also return.

This is going to be the solidifying event for many Catholics or the defection by many otheres.

The Latin Rite NOR the Nicene Creed nor the Prayer to St. Michael has ever been outlawed…it is all valid and never was renounced. However, there are some that think that way. Unfortunately.


#3

A Profession of Faith is required on all Sundays and Solemnities. The Nicene Creed is usually the “standard” Profession of Faith, although there are other options that are licit, such as renewal of baptismal promises, the Apostles’ Creed during Lent, etc.

Skipping the Profession of Faith has become commonplace among priests who are concerned about time. My pastor is pastor of another church. He occassionally cuts the Creed at the first Mass of the day to get over to his other church sooner, and he occassionally cuts the Creed at his other church to get back for the last Mass sooner. It’s about being able to be around the people in both parishes enough. It’s wrong and it’s an abuse, but I’m not going there with him on it.


#4

Well the pressed for time thing shouldn’t be an issue. I went to the 9:00 Mass and the next Mass isn’t until 11:00 and the Priest has no other Church to go to during the hour between Masses. We didn’t recite either the Nicene or Apostle’s Creed, or any other licit Profession of Faith. Why would they put the Profession of Faith in the missal and just allow people to skip over it? That doesn’t make any sense. This was the first time I’ve ever been to Mass and felt disturbed about something while I was leaving.


#5

It may have been intentional on the part of the priest to omit the Nicene Creed (or another profession of faith) in which case it is a liturgical abuse and a grave sin on his part. But, it is also possible that the priest simply forgot about it.

James


#6

I have only attended Mass at this parish about three times or so, because for about the last two months I have been out of town and went to Mass at a different parish. Needless to say that when I first started attending Mass at the parish close by, I was a novice and didn’t know that the Creed was supposed to be read. This morning was the first time I have been there in over two months and now that I think about it I don’t think this Church has ever recited the Creed.


#7

When it comes to liturgical abuses, my first thought is whether or not there is a rationale behind it. I don’t automatically jump to the conclusion that the priest is being lazy, rebellious, or thinks he knows better than Rome. Often times there is a good reason why Father has made a choice to omit something or make a slight alteration. I don’t agree with abusing the Mass, but I’m also going to use good judgement in what battles I choose to fight and which battles I leave for another day.

When Father says to me, “We’re skipping the Gloria today, so don’t worry about playing it… and we’re skipping the Creed too. My knee is really bothering me,” my immediate thought is, “I hope he’s going to be OK and be able to get through Mass today,” not “How dare you!”

Although, when he skips the Creed to get to his other church sooner, I often make sure to remind him that the Profession of Faith is obligatory. I’m not going to take this matter to the bishop, but I’m not going to let him get away with it without a reminder either.


#8

Nothing will be “skipped” in the Latin Rite. There will be no improvisations either. I have been to Masses that were rife with all of that…we were “captive audiences” in that regard. Never left the Church feeling quite good about attending a Mass that was more of a “impromptu” act than a Mass. I always felt a little bit soiled.


#9

johnstown johnn, there are a couple of things I would like to point out. The Latin Rite consists of several different rites of the Mass. The one you are referring to is now referred to in the Motu Proprio as the extraordinary form of the Mass. Just because the EF Mass is required to be in Latin, doesn’t make it the sole Latin Rite Mass. What has been called the Novus Ordo is now the ordinary form of the Mass.

It is an abuse of the liturgy of the OF Mass to add the Prayer to St. Michael. The General Instruction of the Roman Missal does not contain an option or directive to recite it, so it should not be recited as part of the liturgy. In some more traditional areas, the faithful remain after the recessional and recite it themselves. This is allowed, but during the OF Mass, it is not part of the rubrics.

The OF Mass is not going away, nor will it be replaced by the EF Mass, but it is a blessing to have the EF Mass more widely available.


#10

If memory serves, the prayer to St. Michael was always said just before the dismissal. It was never a part of the ritual prior to Consecration and Communion.


#11

From the 2002 General Introduction to the Roman Missal (GIRM) approved for the USA, which can be accessed from romanrite.com/girm.html :

“68. The Creed is to be sung or said by the priest together with the people on Sundays and Solemnities. It may be said also at particular celebrations of a more solemn character.”

The 2002 Roman Missal’s Order of Mass, n. 19, allows either the Nicene or Apostles Creed at any Mass. (Missale Romanum, Libreria Editrice Vaticana, 2002, ISBN: 8820972719, page 513).

The Creed is optional when there are the Scrutinies, (prayers for the elect who are to be baptised a few weeks later.) From the book Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults: “… then, if required, the profession of faith is said. But for pastoral reasons these general intercessions and the profession of faith may be omitted.” (RCIA, n. 143, 157, 164 edition for Australia and England, n. 156, 170, 177 in the editon for the USA.).

The usual time for the Scrutinies is the Third, Fourth and Fifth Sundays of Lent. However, from the RCIA book with the Australian number “133. … When, because of unusual circumstances and pastoral needs, the period of purification and enlightenment takes place outside Lent, the scrutinies are celebrated on Sundays or even on weekdays, with the usual intervals between celebrations. They are not celebrated on solemnities of the liturgical year” (USA RCIA, n. 146).

At the Easter Vigil there is a renewal of baptismal promises, instead of the Creed.

Similarly if there is a baptism at Mass, from the Rite of Baptism for Children “29. … 2 … c. The Creed is not said, since the profession of faith by the entire community before baptism takes its place.” (The Rites Volume One, Liturgical Press, 1990, ISBN: 0-8146-6015-0, page 374).

And if there is a confirmation at Mass, from the Rite of Confirmation “31. … a) the profession of faith is omitted, since it has already been made;” (The Rites Volume One, Liturgical Press, 1990, ISBN: 0-8146-6015-0, page 492).

If there is an ordination of a deacon, priest or bishop in the Mass, from the rite of “Ordination of Deacons, Priests and Bishops”, n. “The profession of faith is not said, nor are the general intecessions.” (The Rites Volume Two, Liturgical Press, 1991, ISBN: 0-8146-6037-1, pages 28, 39, 66).

If there is a consecration to a life of virginity in the Mass: “12. … b) the profession of faith is not said, even if prescribed by the rubrics of the day”. (The Rites Volume Two, Liturgical Press, 1991, ISBN: 0-8146-6037-1, page 161, 177).

If there is a rite of religious profession in the Mass,
for a temporary profession by a man: “22 … b) the profession of faith may be omitted, even if prescribed by the rubrics of the day.” (The Rites Volume Two, Liturgical Press, 1991, ISBN: 0-8146-6037-1, page 213).
the same for a perpetual profession by a man, n. 52(b), page 221.
same if a man renews his vows, n. 83(b), page 233.
same for a women, temporary profession, 25(b), page 252.
same for a women, perpetual profession, 57(b), page 258.
same for a women, renewal of vows, 90(b), page 272.

If there is a blessing of an abbot “15. The profession of faith is not said in this Mass, and the general intercessions are omitted.” (The Rites Volume Two, Liturgical Press, 1991, ISBN: 0-8146-6037-1, page 304.

Same for the blessing of an abbess, n. 10, page 314.

Regarding the 1962 Roman Missal being used, when the 1970 Roman Missal was introduced, there were severe restrictions, for example, the Instruction Constitutione Apostolica of 20 October 1969:

"14. The individual conferences of bishops are to decide on the date when the texts of the new Roman Missal are to become obligatory, except for the cases that are specified in this Instruction nos. 20-21. It is better that such a date be no later than 28 November 1971 …

IV. EXCEPTION

  1. Elderly priests who celebrate Mass without a congregation and who might encounter serious difficulty in taking up the new Order of Mass and the new texts of the Roman Missal and Lectionary for Mass, may, with the consent of their Ordinary, keep to the rites and texts now in use.

  2. Special cases of priests who are infirm, ill, or otherwise disabled are to be submitted to this Congregation.

Pope Paul VI approved this Instruction on 18 October 1969 and ordered its publication for the exact observance of all concerned."

More examples are at romanrite.com/summorum.html


#12

Oh for Pete’s sake - priests are human, and sometimes forgetful like every blessed one of us. Give the man the benefit of the doubt unless and until he repeatedly omits the Creed on Sundays.

My perfectly orthodox, but not-in-the-best-of-health local priest, at one daily Mass made a few announcements after Communion and then just left without giving the final blessing! :rotfl:

Another daily Mass I went to, the priest accidentally skipped part of the Eucharistic prayer :eek: - only noticing the blank looks on the congregation a few minutes into it. He then stopped and inserted the part he’d missed.

Luckily none of this affected the consecration, and being unintentional didn’t affect the liceity or validity of the Mass at all.


#13

That’s still during the Mass and thus subject to the authority of the GIRM.


#14

Actually he has omitted it on several occasions, and I stated such earlier in this thread.


#15

No, it was AFTER the dismissal and never a part of the Mass. After “Ite Missa est”, then the Last Gospel was read, and the Salve Regina, and St. Michael Prayer, ect.

In Christ,
Rand


#16

I don’t thik it went anyplace. Just this morning the priest said, "Credo in unum Deum…"
The Mass included the beginning of the Gospel according to John, too.
More than 50 people were on hand when the TLM started at 7 a.m., and most of them were awake:) .


#17

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#18

Not a bit of it, you merely stated that you don’t *recall *it ever having been said.

Furthermore you admitted that you didn’t think about the matter before because you didn’t know it was mandatory.

That’s a totally different thing to being certain that he omitted it on multiple occasions.


#19

I am certain it was never said before. I didn’t think anything of it at the time because I hadn’t attended Mass anywhere else at that point and didn’t even know Catholics recited the Creed at Mass. But now that I started thinking about it I know that the Creed has never been recited before at that parish during Mass the times I have attended. I guess I didn’t clarify my point enough in my above posts but this should clarify it for you.


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