Where do you think you will you go immediately after you die?


#1

Where do you think you will you go immediately after you die?

Be honest…

This is to see how serious “purgatory” is in your mind…


#2

Purgatory is serious enough in my mind to vote for it. :smiley:

Of course, I voted for it with the understanding that I could be quite wrong. Even so, if I do go to purgatory I will at least know that I am saved and in a part of the heavenly realms instead of the realms of hell.

Catholics have a moral certainty of heaven (purgatory being a part of heaven), but we don’t declare that we know we will go to heaven–that would be presumption, which is a sin.


#3

Purgatory - with dittoes to what Della said. :slight_smile:


#4

Well, it may be the fact I have faced death a few times in my life but I always consider everyday to quite possibly be my last. I certainly say a prayer of thanks at night for the extra time. I say a prayer in the morning for stregnth and then go on to my day. I try my best yet it’s so rare I am perfect. :slight_smile: Without being perfect I can’t simply expect Heaven if I die tommorow. Yet trying my best and accepting what grace God gives me I have a true hope for purgatory.

Because to me, purgatory is place to be “removed from those darn near occasions of sin” and to have a real shot at Heaven! heh


#5

Purgatory, having made the Heroic Act Of Charity. To pay in full, to the last penny, without indulgences or remissions.


#6

Is it presumption, given this Bible verse:

**1 John 5:11-13 (New International Version) **
11And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.


#7

Why not use Indulgences since they are a gift from the Church?


#8

Purgatory – because I’m realistic to know that I have not made personal amends for the wrongs I have done, and that I have attachment to more sin at this time in my life than I hate to admit.

At the same time, I have confidence that, through God’s abundant love and ridiculously gratuitous grace, if I persevere in obedience and faith in Him, my eternity will be in heaven with my Lord and his saints, so if it takes a lay-over in Purgatory to get there, I’m happy and blessed to do it. Blessed be God for His mercy of Purgatory, or NONE of us here in this forum would make it to heaven.


#9

It is if you forget that that verse must be balanced against these:

Heb. 7:27, 9:12,26;10:10; 1 Pet 3:18 - Jesus died once and redeemed us all, but we participate in the application of His redemption by the way in which we live.

Heb. 9:12 - Christ’s sacrifice secured our redemption, but redemption is not the same thing as salvation. We participate in and hope for salvation. Our hope in salvation is a guarantee if we are faithful to Christ to the end. But if we lose hope and fail to persevere, we can lose our salvation. Thus, by our own choosing (not by God’s doing), salvation is not a certainty. While many Protestant churches believe in the theology of “once saved, always saved,” such a novel theory is not found in Scripture and has never been taught by the Church.

Rom. 5:2 - we rejoice in the “hope” (not the presumptuous certainty) of sharing the glory of God. If salvation is absolutely assured after accepting Jesus as Savior, why would Paul hope?

Rom. 5:5 - this “hope” does not disappoint us, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit. Our hope is assured if we persevere to the end.

Rom. 8:24 - this “hope” of salvation that Paul writes about is unnecessary if salvation is guaranteed. If salvation is assured, then why hope?

Rom. 10:1 - Paul prays that the Jews “may be saved.” Why pray if it’s guaranteed? Further, why pray unless you can mediate?

Rom. 12:12 - rejoice in your “hope” (not your certainty), be patient in tribulation, and be constant in prayer.

2 Cor. 3:12 - since we have a “hope” (not a certainty), we are very bold. We can be bold when we are in God’s grace and our persevering in obedient faith.

Gal. 5:5 - for through the Spirit by faith we wait for the “hope” (not the certainty) of righteousness.

Eph. 1:18 - that you may know what is the “hope” to which He has called you, what are the riches of His glorious inheritance.

Eph. 4:4 - there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to the one “hope” (not the one certainty) that belongs to your call.

Eph. 6:10-17 – Paul instructs the Ephesians to take the whole armor of God, the breastplate of righteousness, and the helmet of salvation, in order “to stand,” lest they fall. Paul does not give any assurance that the spiritual battle is already won.

Phil. 3:11 - Paul shares Christ’s sufferings so that “if possible” he may attain resurrection. Paul does not view his own resurrection as a certainty.

Phil. 1:20 - as it is my eager expectation and “hope” (not certainty) that I shall not be at all ashamed before Christ.

Col. 1:5 - Paul refers to the “hope” (not guarantee) that Christ laid up for us in heaven.

Col. 1:23 - provided that you continue in the faith, not shifting from the “hope” of the gospel which you heard.

Col. 1:27 - to them God chose to make known His mystery, which is Christ in you, the “hope” (not the certainty) of His glory.

1 Thess. 1:3 - remembering before our God your work of faith and labor of love and steadfastness of “hope” in Jesus Christ.

1 Thess. 2:19 - for what is our “hope” or joy or crown of boasting before our Lord Jesus at his coming? Is it not you?

1 Thess. 5:8 - we must put on the helmet of “hope” (not of certainty) of salvation.

2 Thess. 2:16 - the Lord Jesus and God our Father who loved us and gave us eternal comfort and good “hope” through grace.

(continued…)


#10

And these:

1 Tim. 1:1 - Paul describes Christ Jesus as our “hope” (not our guarantee). We can reject Him and He will allow this.

1 Tim. 4:10 - Paul says we toil and strive because we have our “hope” (not our assurance) on the living God. This is not because God is unfaithful, but because we can be unfaithful. We toil and strive for our salvation.

1 Tim. 5:5 - she who is a real widow, and is left all alone, has set her “hope” (not her assurance) on God. Our hope is a guarantee only if we persevere to the end.

1 Tim. 5:15 – Paul writes that some have already strayed after satan, as God Himself tells us in 1 Tim. 4:1. They were on the right path, and then strayed off of it.

2 Tim. 2:10 - Paul endures for the elect so that they “may also obtain salvation.” This verse teaches us that even the "elect,” from the standpoint of human knowledge, have no guarantee of salvation.

Titus 1:2 - Paul says that he is in the “hope” (not the certainty) of eternal life. Paul knows that his hope is a guarantee if he perseveres, but his ability to choose sin over God makes his attainment of eternal life less than an absolute certainty until it is actually achieved.

Titus 2:13 - awaiting our blessed “hope,” the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

Titus 3:7 - Paul says we have been given the Spirit so we might become heirs in the “hope” (not the certainty) of eternal life.

Heb. 3:6 - we are Christ’s house if we hold fast our confidence and pride in our “hope” (not our certainty).

Heb. 6:11 - we desire each one of you to show the same earnestness in realizing the full assurance of “hope” (not certainty) until the end.

Heb. 6:18 - we who have fled for refuge might have strong encouragement to seize the “hope” (not the certainty) that is set before us.

Heb. 6:19 - we have a “hope” that enters into the inner shrine behind the curtain, where Jesus has gone before us.

Heb. 7:19 - on the other hand, a better “hope” (not certainty) is introduced, through which we draw near to God.

Heb. 10:23 - let us hold fast the confession of our “hope” without wavering, for He who promised is faithful.

Heb. 11:1 - now faith is the assurance of things “hoped” for (not guaranteed), the conviction of things not seen (heaven).

Heb. 12:1 – let us run with perseverance the race that is set before us.

Heb. 12:15 – see to it that no one fail to obtain the grace of God; that no root of bitterness spring up and cause trouble, and by it many become defiled.

James 1:12 - we must endure trial and withstand the test in order to receive the crown of life. It is not guaranteed.

1 Peter 1:3 - by His mercy we have been born anew to a living “hope” through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.

Hope that helps! :tiphat:


#11

purgatory.


#12

I am of the opinion (consistant with Catholic teaching) that purgatory isn’t a “where” but a “how”, so it would be impossible to give “purgatory” as an answer even though I fully believe in it.

(I didn’t answer the poll beceause the answers are public, and I don’t do public polls…)


#13

[FONT=Arial]How shocking. A poll that essentially asks people here whether they believe themselves to be in a state of grace. Of course, people ought to know that any answer other than “I don’t know” would be either presumption or despair. Both of these are blasphemies against the Holy Spirit.[/FONT]


#14

They are used. The Heroic Act simply passes them on to others in Purgatory, leaving none for yourself.:frowning:


#15

I am confused when you said this pole was asking people about being in state of grace.


#16

People ought to know if they are in a state of grace or not - otherwise we could never receive Communion.

The poll asks “where do you think …” not “where do you **know **…” so it is not presumptuous to say Purgatory if you are not in a state of mortal sin.


#17

[FONT=Arial]When Saint Joan of Arc was asked the question: “are you in a state of grace?” Her inspired reply was: “If I am, may God keep me there. If I am not, may God bring me there.” As for the rest of us queuing up for the Eucharist at Mass, we all are to say “Lord, I am not worthy to receive you but only say the word and I shall be healed.” The Church does not ask us to know what our state of Grace is before we receive, since this is something we can never know until the particular judgement. Instead, she asks that we make a mental inventory to see if we are free of the taint of mortal sin, an entirely different question.[/FONT]


#18

If I live for another 20 years, I’d rather not blithely assume that I will persevere. I’d like to think that I will, but that is not the same as thinking I will.

I would find this question easier to answer if you asked about dying immediately.


#19

Nice List!


#20

OK, now that you have shown me that you are much holier then me, such that you can accuse me of blasphemies against the Holy Spirit…all this over a poll that used the word “think” rather then “know”…


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