An evangelical friend of mine brought this up to me the other day. I know I heard it somewhere, but I cant find where the bible says that the saints intercede for us.
These may help:
Intercession of the Saints:
Praying to the Saints:
well… this is what one of the pastor of INC (church of christ of manalo)…
“if we will look at one of the verses on the revelation to be the base of our believe that we can pray to the saints and the saints will bring our prayers in heaven… then we must first think that the revelation is talking about future events, and yes on the revelation the dead can talk and the dead saints will bring our prayers to the heaven. but it is not happening this day, it will happen in the future.”
so what he mean is that nope, the dead cant do anything.
Here’s a good link:
**There is no “future event” to God, there is no time.
These people are confusing physical death with eternal spiritual life.
“‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? He is not God of the dead, but of the living.” (Mt 22:32)
“And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Eli’jah, talking with him.” (Mt 17:3)**
Sancta Maria, Mater Dei, Ora Pro Nobis Peccatoribus!
James 5:16 The fervent prayer of the righteous man availeth much. Who could be more righteous than those who have attained their eternal reward and are now with Christ in heaven?
Tobit Ch 12:12 reveals that the Archangel (Saint) Raphael interceded for Tobit and presented his prayers to God. “I can now tell you that when you, Tobit, and Sarah prayed, it was I who presented and read the record of your prayer before the Glory of the Lord; and I did the same thing when you used to bury the dead.” Unfortunately, this is one of the books that was hacked out of the Bible, so your friend probably won’t recognize it. Hopefully, if you give him the verse, he will at least understand why we Catholics believe in intercessory prayer and possibly he will start investigating why he doesn’t have this book in His bible.
I have a lot of debates with my protestant friends and have just a word of advise… be prepared to “agree to disagree” on some issues.
On this specific topic, I usually talk about the Communion of Saints. Now, some protestants haven’t really heard of it, but it may be worth a shot.
The Communion of Saints basically tells us that we are all saints. That said, those that have gone before us, those currently on earth, and those yet to come into the world, are all saints. Therefore, there is really no difference between asking another living Christian to pray for you than there is asking the same from one who has entered eternal life. As Christians, we believe that if we are true to our faith, we don’t really “die”. Our earthly bodies might, but our souls are eternal.
Just something to keep in mind. You have a lot of great posts on this thread.
God Bless and Semper Fidelis.
This is the future from John’s perspective; Revalation was written 2000 year ago.
I’m wondering if anybody here can give me some good links about the Communion of Saints… and of Purgatory? I’m discussing it with a new friend… another Christian… at a discussion thread outside of this Forum.
***That person is requesting info for where in the Bible certain things are. So I did not go much beyond the Bible references. ***
There, I’m known as Scribo. (yeah… I know. A Latin name de plume – meaning “I write.” Or… “to write.” Not very creative, huh?:o).
That poster is very polite and simply is wondering some things that I, myself, would be wondering if I didn’t already know them.
*]where is Communion of Saints in the Bible?
*]where is the term “purgatory” in the Bible?
After your having read this reply of mine (there), is there anything else you’d suggest that I offer to her (him)?
I already offered the last paragraph in the article** Sacred Scripture Depends on Sacred Tradition, by Stephen N. Filippo **in a 2000 issue of This Rock since it seemed to cut to the chase about Purgatory… while showing us why it is that Sacred Tradition is so necessary and relevant.
I also offered paragraph 1031 of the Catechism.
But since I didn’t want to take up more space on THAT thread under discussion at that board – about “Are You Afraid to Die?” – than I already had… in fear of hijacking that thead I left it at that and invited that other poster to come visit here at the CA Forum. And gave them the actual link to THIS discussion so that they could see where I’m asking for additional info that might help this person better than I may have.
[/LIST] Its in the same chapter as the Trinity.
This will help you make the point that some teachings of the bible explicit and some are implicit.
Here are a couple places were the dead are described as interceding for the living:
In Luke 16:27-28, Jesus describes a dead rich man interceding for his five living brothers.
In 2 Maccabees 15:12-14, Judas Maccabeus describes a vision, worthy of belief, that he had had of the dead high priest Onias and the dead prophet Jeremiah interceding for the Jewish people.