Where in the Bible do they talk about Mary?


#1

Before starting, let me say that I am 100% confirmed Catholic, the problem is with my sister in Christ, a co-worker, a protestant to be exact.

Today in the office (BTW I work in a protestant organisation) there was a bit of discussion about Mary. She says that there is nowhere in the Bible, that says you have to worship Mary and all about rosary and “Hail mary”. But, I asked her to give her Bible and pointed out to Revelation 12, where there is a discussion about the Woman and the dragon. That the woman will bore a son who will rule the earth with an iron scepter.

She says that Revelation is too complicated, but asked me to think about salvation, baptism which is very simple for lay person. I said it’s just Revelation is so simple.

I’ve her Bible with me on my desk now, where in Luke 1:28 it’s written “Greetings, you who are highly favoured!” Apparently, it’s altered translation. They base everything in Bible. How can they claim that it’s right when they alter it for their own good?

I want to drive out to the point that we don’t worship Mary. She says that Catholics never agree that we worhip Mary, but they (protestants) believe we do worship Mary.

Although, I’ve much to argue, I’ve controlled myself then. But, now I want to get a crystal explanation to tell her tomorrow


#2

catholic.com/library/mary_saints.asp

There’s also lots of other threads about Mary in this section of the forums which will help answer your question.

Good question, important for any Catholics who want to talk to Protestants to know, but has been done too many times on this forum.


#3

catholic.com/library/Saint_Worship.asp

I would strongly suggest that when (if) you use that above that you use the CCC condemning polytheism so as to make sure that she doesn’t think that you are B.S.ing her and that because you used the word Worship (dispite the diffrent meanings) that you are worshiping (adoration) Mary and are going to Hell (if they belive in hell, some people don’t).


#4

This topic often brings forth the scriptural evidence and support or lack thereof for special reverence to Mary.

Yet what of thepractical discussion? All protestants would agree that Mary is the virgin, highly favored mother of Jesus. What son would not highly redeem and regard his own mother and highly favor her putting her in a special status to be acknowledged and adored? Most early men I know hold a special place in thier heart for thier beloved earthly mother. I’d argue Jesus loves His mother two-fold. He loves her with the love God has for all, and He loves her as His wordly mother.

As Father Corapi so perfectly states, “If she is good enough for Jesus she is good enough for us”.

It just seems so clear. Mary was not a tool for Jesus, she was his most adored and love mother.


#5

you might point out that these discussions will be fruitless if you both forget the rules of civil discourse, and that it is extremely rude to contradict someone who says, “I do not worship Mary” by saying “I know exactly what is going on in your mind when you say the rosary, and I say you DO worship Mary”.

“They” don’t say anything about Mary in the Bible. The divinely inspired authors of scripture have a lot to say in the OT prophecies, for example Isaiah, and especially in Luke’s Gospel about Mary. You might also point out that all Catholic doctrine about Mary was explained in order to emphasize and teach doctrine about Jesus, since everything about Mary points to Jesus.

If she refuses to accept a clear statement of fact on your part when you share something about your spirituality, then she is not someone with whom you can have a rational discussion, on this or any other topic.


#6

[quote=puzzleannie]you might point out that these discussions will be fruitless if you both forget the rules of civil discourse, and that it is extremely rude to contradict someone who says, “I do not worship Mary” by saying “I know exactly what is going on in your mind when you say the rosary, and I say you DO worship Mary”.

“They” don’t say anything about Mary in the Bible. The divinely inspired authors of scripture have a lot to say in the OT prophecies, for example Isaiah, and especially in Luke’s Gospel about Mary. You might also point out that all Catholic doctrine about Mary was explained in order to emphasize and teach doctrine about Jesus, since everything about Mary points to Jesus.

If she refuses to accept a clear statement of fact on your part when you share something about your spirituality, then she is not someone with whom you can have a rational discussion, on this or any other topic.
[/quote]

Your right that is rude but, I still have known those types of people that will tell you, “ohhs yes you do worship her. And I am going to prove it.” So I would be hard pressed to rely on good manners. So I think that it would always be usefull to have something to beat them senseless (or sensefull :slight_smile: ) to show them that we don’t. 'Cause those are the types of people that will go telling other people (and some might beleive him).


#7

I’m engaged in a discussion with a Protestant friend who’s saying things like “I’ve heard so-and-so on Catholic radio say the Church is trinitarian, but every time I hear them talk about Mary I sense this unspoken rule that there’s really a quad.” She’s obviously accusing us of worshipping Mary. I sent her a copy of the “Gloria,” which says, in part, “We worship you, we give you thanks, we praise you for your glory” - as you know, in reference to Our Lord. This is something we hear at every mass, so it should be abundantly clear to any Protestant who is the least bit intellectually honest that we don’t do as they’ve accused.


#8

[quote=christaddict]Today in the office (BTW I work in a protestant organisation) there was a bit of discussion about Mary. She says that there is nowhere in the Bible, that says you have to worship Mary and all about rosary and “Hail mary”.

I want to drive out to the point that we don’t worship Mary. She says that Catholics never agree that we worhip Mary, but they (protestants) believe we do worship Mary.
[/quote]

This seems to be the gist of your question. The direct answer is to say, “No, you are mistaken, the Church specifically teaches we are to worship God alone” and show them the reference in the CCC. Also, remind them that the Bible doesn’t say that everything we need to believe as Christians is in the Bible–for example the word Trinity (or even the explicit reference to the doctrine) are in the Bible; neither is there an inspired table of contents that tells us what books are in the Bible.

If your friend seems to not be able to take your word or the Church’s word that Catholics don’t worship Mary after this, the burden of proof is on them.


#9

where in the bible do they talk about Eve?
where do they talk about the Arc of the Covenant?
where do they talk about Jesus’ mother?
where do they talk about the Queen of Heaven and Earth??

Mary is talked about from Genesis to Revelation…

here is a good article from New Advent…

newadvent.org/cathen/15464b.htm

and another from the University of Dayton

udayton.edu/mary/advc01.html

:slight_smile:


#10

The 1st and 2nd chapters of Luke talk about Mary.
From the Gospel of Luke, chapter 1 …

— [The angel Gabriel, sent from God, says to Mary:]
"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee. "
— (Luke 1:28 Douay-Rheims version)

— [Elizabeth **filled with the Holy Spirit said in a loud voice:]
“Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.”
— (Luke 1:42 Douay-Rheims version)

These are some of the sweetest words ever, the very beginning of the Good News – the Messiah, Our Savior, awaited for centuries, will be born in just 9 months! He’s coming at last! Alleluia!

I’m glad this lady is concerned about salvation, and i’m glad she at least believes in the bible. But she’s mixed up.

One of the most important things we must do to be saved is to pray! And there is no better prayer than praying God’s Word, the Holy Gospel, over our lives.

She probably hasn’t thought about it, but (as Father Corapi said) the “Hail Mary” and the whole rosary is basically a prayer of the Holy Gospel. Who could have a problem with a prayer that is made up mostly of passages directly out of the Gospel of Luke ? (Her church may have a slightly different translation, but that’s beside the point.)

Also, the Bible says we should pray for one another.
Well, the rest of the prayer is a request that Mary pray for us.

“Holy Mary, mother of God, pray for us sinners, …”

Who could be a better prayer partner than Mary?, the one who was faithful to Our Lord right to the end, and she is with Jesus in heaven now (even the Protestants believe that i think). All Catholic devotion to Mary points toward Jesus and the Trinity.

Like Father Corapi says, the rosary is a prayer of the Holy Gospel because the prayers, the Our Father and the Hail Mary, are right out of the Gospel. And the mysteries we meditate on as we pray the prayers are Gospel events in the life of Jesus and His mother Mary.

The rosary is a prayer of the Gospel, the Word. The Word is not some thing, but Somebody: Jesus Christ. The central word in the Hail Mary prayer is “Jesus”. And Jesus Christ is what the rosary is all about, which is why it is so powerful.

Instead of defending that it’s ok to pray the rosary, share with your co-worker some reasons why everyone SHOULD pray the rosary. This might not convince her right away, but if you speak with love, keep your cool, and don’t get into a long argument, then you can at least leave her with some things to think about. I will pray a HAIL MARY for you right now. :thumbsup:


#11

[quote=urban-hermit]— [Elizabeth **filled with the Holy Spirit
[/quote]

said in a loud voice:]
“Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.”
— (Luke 1:42 Douay-Rheims version)I shared this verse with my friend, and she said, “yeah, but she only called her blessed *among *women. Why didn’t she call her blessed *above *women?” Ugh.


#12

Regarding Rev. 12: Who is the child in this passage? Can I assume she thinks it is Jesus? Now, can she honestly say that when people read this passage and think of Jesus being born, the thought of his mother Mary never enters the mind? This is like telling someone not think of an elephant for the next five minutes. Contrary to what some non-Catholics say, Catholics DO consider expanded interpretations of the woman to be Israel, etc. but it is quite a stretch to say these interpretations completely exclude Mary.


#13

This sould help

catholic.com/thisrock/2003/0301fea3.asp

As Father Corapi says:
“Pray the Rosary often… pray with all your heart!”


#14

[quote=christaddict]Before starting, let me say that I am 100% confirmed Catholic, the problem is with my sister in Christ, a co-worker, a protestant to be exact.

Today in the office (BTW I work in a protestant organisation) there was a bit of discussion about Mary. She says that there is nowhere in the Bible, that says you have to worship Mary and all about rosary and “Hail mary”. But, I asked her to give her Bible and pointed out to Revelation 12, where there is a discussion about the Woman and the dragon. That the woman will bore a son who will rule the earth with an iron scepter.

She says that Revelation is too complicated, but asked me to think about salvation, baptism which is very simple for lay person. I said it’s just Revelation is so simple.

I’ve her Bible with me on my desk now, where in Luke 1:28 it’s written “Greetings, you who are highly favoured!” Apparently, it’s altered translation. They base everything in Bible. How can they claim that it’s right when they alter it for their own good?

I want to drive out to the point that we don’t worship Mary. She says that Catholics never agree that we worhip Mary, but they (protestants) believe we do worship Mary.

Although, I’ve much to argue, I’ve controlled myself then. But, now I want to get a crystal explanation to tell her tomorrow
[/quote]

Remember, you cannot prove a negative. So, when discussing scripture with a Protestant and they use the old “That is not a good translation” argument, ask them if their Bible has the following passages:

Luke 1:28 -30
Luke 1:42
Luke 1:48
Luke 1:43
Mt 1:23

Then let her know that, as a Catholic, you are not a child of the Book, you are a Child of the Word Incarnate. Because of that, and because the Bible tells you in John 21:25 that not everything Jesus said was recorded in Holy Scripture, you rely upon Apostolic Teaching…then refer her to the Early Church Fathers. If she rejects anything but the Bible alone, ask her to show you where, in Holy Scripture, it says we are to rely upon Holy Scripture ALONE…it does not.


#15

The simplest basis for our veneration is simple.

We learnt from the master Himself.

Jesus Christ spent his whole life in silent obedience to his mother, Mary. If he could have pleased God (the Father) more by doing other things, he would have done. Thus we follow his example.

Ive yet to see a response to that.

:stuck_out_tongue:


#16

[quote=djrakowski]I shared this verse with my friend, and she said, “yeah, but she only called her blessed *among *women. Why didn’t she call her blessed *above *women?” Ugh.
[/quote]

Perhaps becuase she is a woman? Seriously, sometimes this type of objection just gets under my skin.


#17

someone probably already said this but we ask Mary to pray with us. We ask the Saints to pray with us and for us just as we would a family member or friend. Mary is a huge part of our faith, she had no sin. Its good to have a relationship with her because she can bring us closer to Jesus, which is Mary’s vocation.


#18

Thanks people for the support!

As I got back to work I looked into her Bible on the desk. And read the verse Luke 1:42 It’s written “In a loud voice she exclaimed :” Blessed are you among women; and blessed is the child you will bear!"(many of you confirmed it too) Not to mention that really boosted up my confidence, although I wouldn’t like to argue about that again. I just want to make open-ended question and leave on her own, this tatic really works as I see from her nervousness and rapid talk and accusations of the church. That says she isn’t very confident about her faith. But again, can we leave a person on the wrong track?

Oh yes, I told her very assertively that I do not want to argue about that. A senior person in the organisation has said that I should remove that death rope(scapular) because, when Lazarus was raised from death Jesus commanded to remove that wrapped clothes. He says that I need to be saved (redeemed). Although I was disturbed at that time, I confirmed “I am saved” with confidence. They believe there isn’t salvation out of their church. Now as I reflect, I don’t have any remorse. Jesus alone is the judge. I see there isn’t much a point in arguing.

And yesterday, she said christianity is not about rituals (pointing over to the sacraments) I said everything is a ritual, baptism is a ritual. She was not at peace as she came to say baptism is not a ritual as it is in the Bible. But rosary isn’t in the Bible. I said to her “water doesn’t baptise you, it’s the faith that baptises you.” (although I am not perfect in rhetoric I am confident that one day I can put my point clearly )

At home, I’ve an incredible book called “The Autobiography of a hunted priest” by John Gerard, a Jesuit priest of the reformation era. It’s a adventurous tale about how he disguises as a lay person but with great accuracy and clear arguments converts even the hardest of the heretics. One day I want to be like that. For now, it’s so interesting to know more about this arguments, since this only increases my faith! :slight_smile:

p.e.a.c.e


#19

[quote=djrakowski]I shared this verse with my friend, and she said, “yeah, but she only called her blessed *among *women. Why didn’t she call her blessed *above *women?” Ugh.
[/quote]

Well, she did say she was blessed above all women! As Fr Mitch Pacwa says (and i know he is not the only scripture scholar to know this fact) to be “blessed among women” meant, in the idiom of the day, to be more blessed than any other woman. Including Eve. Meaning Mary, like Eve, was born without original sin. Unlike Eve, Mary persevered in sinlessness.


#20

[quote=urban-hermit]Well, she did say she was blessed above all women! As Fr Mitch Pacwa says (and i know he is not the only scripture scholar to know this fact) to be “blessed among women” meant, in the idiom of the day, to be more blessed than any other woman. Including Eve. Meaning Mary, like Eve, was born without original sin. Unlike Eve, Mary persevered in sinlessness.
[/quote]

Very nice! This is exactly the type of information I need to defend Our Lady against these attacks.


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