Where is Jesus' Body?


#1

And the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God. (Mark 16:19)

And it came to pass, whilst he blessed them, he departed from them, and was carried up to heaven. (Luke 24:51)

And when he had said these things, while they looked on, he was raised up: and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they were beholding him going up to heaven, behold two men stood by them in white garments. (Acts 1:9-10)

These passages seem to depict a bit of a contradiction. We are told that Jesus physically flew off into the sky to get to heaven, but that implies that heaven is a physical place.

So the question is, where is Jesus’ physical body?

  • Is it somewhere on earth, and only his spiritual body ascended into heaven?
  • Is it floating around somewhere in space?
  • Did he warp into the spiritual dimension through some sort of wormhole, so his physical body is in Heaven?
  • Did it disappear when his spiritual body went to heaven?

#2

Hi ngill,

Jesus' body is wherever he wants to be. Basically heaven is a state in which we see God "face to face", as he is (beatific vision). Jesus as man is in heaven because he has the beatific vision. He carries heaven around with Him.

So Jesus was already "in" heaven before the Ascension. The action of going up was to signify that the task of spreading the kingdom of heaven is now entrusted to us until Jesus returns on Judgment Day.

But will heaven be a fixed place after that? Revelation speaks of a New Heaven and a New Earth? Possiby earth will be transformed into a Garden of Paradise for all those who are saved and (who knows?) a place of punishment for those who are not.

I like to think Jesus and Mary are living with us incognito on earth. You might meet them at the supermarket or on a plane.

What do you think?


#3

[quote="ngill09, post:1, topic:332969"]
And the Lord Jesus, after he had spoken to them, was taken up into heaven, and sitteth on the right hand of God. (Mark 16:19)

And it came to pass, whilst he blessed them, he departed from them, and was carried up to heaven. (Luke 24:51)

And when he had said these things, while they looked on, he was raised up: and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they were beholding him going up to heaven, behold two men stood by them in white garments. (Acts 1:9-10)

These passages seem to depict a bit of a contradiction. We are told that Jesus physically flew off into the sky to get to heaven, but that oimplies that heaven is a physical place.

So the question is, where is Jesus' physical body?

  • Is it somewhere on earth, and only his spiritual body ascended into heaven?
  • Is it floating around somewhere in space?
  • Did he warp into the spiritual dimension through some sort of wormhole, so his physical body is in Heaven?
  • Did it disappear when his spiritual body went to heaven?

[/quote]

Jesus ascended in a way that men could witness it, thus he "flew". His body is in Heaven, along with His mother. It's a glorified body, not limited by time or space. So heaven doesn't have to be a "place" for his body to be there.


#4

[quote="Verbum, post:2, topic:332969"]
Hi ngill,

Jesus' body is wherever he wants to be. Basically heaven is a state in which we see God "face to face", as he is (beatific vision). Jesus as man is in heaven because he has the beatific vision. He carries heaven around with Him.

So Jesus was already "in" heaven before the Ascension. The action of going up was to signify that the task of spreading the kingdom of heaven is now entrusted to us until Jesus returns on Judgment Day.

But will heaven be a fixed place after that? Revelation speaks of a New Heaven and a New Earth? Possiby earth will be transformed into a Garden of Paradise for all those who are saved and (who knows?) a place of punishment for those who are not.

*I like to think Jesus and Mary are living with us incognito on earth. You might meet them at the supermarket or on a plane. *

What do you think?

[/quote]

I think it might make nice plots for movies but that is not what scriture nor the Church teaches.

Jesus ascended to Heaven and Mary was assumed into Heaven. Jesus will not return until the parousia at the end of time, the second coming. You will meet Jesus when you die or when he returns at the end of time, whichever comes first.

These are some of the most basic doctrines of our faith.

-Tim-


#5

ngill09, the Scriptures you cited are not contradictions, but reports of the same event from the perspective of Mark and Luke (Luke gives more details in Acts than in his gospel, but there is no contradiction). Jesus is in Heaven, seated at the right hand of the Father (as reported in the God-breathed Scriptures). I would add that Heaven is a "state" in the same way that Texas is a "state". Being a native Texan, I recognize that being a Texan is a "state of mind", but the state itself is very real! For those who don't believe Heaven is a real place, I would ask what the official teaching of the church is on that point. CCC 326 say, 'The Scriptural expression "heaven and earth" means all that exists, creation in its entirety. It also indicates the bond, deep within creation, that both unites heaven and earth and distinguishes the one from the other: "the earth" is the world of men, while "heaven" or "the heavens" can designate both the firmament and God's own "place" - "our Father in heaven" and consequently the "heaven" too which is eschatological glory. Finally, "heaven" refers to the saints and the "place" of the spiritual creatures, the angels, who surround God.186 '. Footnote 186 references Psalm 115:16; Psalm 19:2; and Matt 5:16.


#6

Our Lord’s body can be found in the Tabernacles of the World and upon our Altars.


#7

[quote="FrStevenJones, post:3, topic:332969"]
Jesus ascended in a way that men could witness it, thus he "flew". His body is in Heaven, along with His mother. It's a glorified body, not limited by time or space. So heaven doesn't have to be a "place" for his body to be there.

[/quote]

So, he's floating around in space somewhere?

People, I get that his spirit is in Heaven or that heaven is in him/with him wherever He goes. But where is his physical body?


#8

Yes, I would like to know this also. How can a physical body fly to heaven? Only souls can go to heaven, no?


#9

[quote="ngill09, post:7, topic:332969"]
So, he's floating around in space somewhere?

People, I get that his spirit is in Heaven or that heaven is in him/with him wherever He goes. But where is his physical body?

[/quote]

His body is now glorified. Not a normal physical body. A normal physical body cannot walk through walls. Avoid the mistake of thinking it's just a normal human body. But he ate after the Resurrection, so it was not simply a spiritual apparition. It was a body, but glorified!

But the body is in heaven. We know this by Faith. It's Dogma, infallible. But heaven is not a place, like "Jamaica, on the beach".

So where's his body? In heaven. Where's heaven? That's where God is! We really don't know more than that, with precision. We know that much, because God taught us.


#10

Since it was strongly against Roman custom to give a crucified man "a decent burial", many New Testament scholars have long believed Jesus' post-crucifixion steps would have followed the traditional ritual of burying his body in a mass grave, along with the many others who were crucified that same day or around the same time.

Some ancient sources that cite the mass grave practice include: Plutarch’s Moralia 307C; Tacitus Annals 6.26, Suetonius Augustus 13, and others.

Early Christian historian and priest, John Dominic Crossan, notes that since antiquity, the remains of only one crucified victim has been found having been buried.
Hence, Crossan and retired bishop John Strong--among others--think the tradition that his body was buried by Joseph of Arimathea in the tomb is incorrect.

Other scholars say the practice at the time was also to leave the body on the cross:
Horace, Epistle 1.16.46-45; Petronius Satyricon 111-112; Artemidorius’s Dream Handbook 2.53; The Church History of Eusebius 5.1.61-62 and others.

Hard to know anything for sure, tho! For obvious reasons!

.


#11

[quote="ngill09, post:7, topic:332969"]
But where is his physical body?

[/quote]

Did you read the post by FrStevenJones?

The Lord has what is termed a glorified body. The term physical body does not apply to Him, for it is no longer bound by any physical constraints. When in life, He was subject to all natural constraints of time and space, but after His resurrection all limitations were removed.

This may be peculiar to you, because you need to understand the teaching of the glorified body. I could try to very briefly sketch it by stating that after our physical death the soul, immortal by nature, is released from all constraints of time and space, and after the Judgment it is reunited with a glorified body that has attained an equal degree of freedom by God's grace. And what the Lord's body experiences since the Resurrection is the same all bodies will experience after the Judgment (John 5:29). I exhort you to read what s. Thomas Aquinas had to write in the Summa contra Gentiles, fourth book, Chapters 84 forward (text here).


#12

[quote="DaddyGirl, post:10, topic:332969"]
Since it was strongly against Roman custom to give a crucified man "a decent burial", many New Testament scholars have long believed Jesus' post-crucifixion steps would have followed the traditional ritual of burying his body in a mass grave, along with the many others who were crucified at the same time.

Some ancient sources that cite the mass grave practice include: Plutarch’s Moralia 307C; Tacitus Annals 6.26, Suetonius Augustus 13, and others.

Early Christian historian and priest, John Dominic Crossan, notes that since antiquity, the remains of only one crucified victim has been found having been buried.
Hence, Crossan and retired bishop John Strong--among others--think the tradition that his body was buried by Josieph of Arimathea is incorrect.

Other scholars say the practice at the time was also to leave the body on the cross:
Horace, Epistle 1.16.46-45; Petronius Satyricon 111-112; Artemidorius’s Dream Handbook 2.53; The Church History of Eusebius 5.1.61-62 and others.

Hard to know anything for sure, tho! For obvious reasons!

.

[/quote]

We do know with certainty what happened to his body, all four Gospels tell us. He was buried in a tomb close to Calvary. This was winessed and recorded. Then he rose from the dead, and ascended to heaven. That is Dogmatically certain, these other stories are spurious.


#13

[quote="R_C, post:11, topic:332969"]
Did you read the post by FrStevenJones?

The Lord has what is termed a glorified body. The term physical body does not apply to Him, for it is no longer bound by any physical constraints. When in life, He was subject to all natural constraints of time and space, but after His resurrection all limitations were removed.

This may be peculiar to you, because you need to understand the teaching of the glorified body. I could try to very briefly sketch it by stating that after our physical death the soul, immortal by nature, is released from all constraints of time and space, and after the Judgment it is reunited with a glorified body that has attained an equal degree of freedom by God's grace. And what the Lord's body experiences since the Resurrection is the same all bodies will experience after the Judgment (John 5:29). I exhort you to read what s. Thomas Aquinas had to write in the Summa contra Gentiles, fourth book, Chapters 84 forward (text here).

[/quote]

Right, so his "glorified body" flew off into space, and went... where? Where in the physical universe did it fly off to? Or did it disappear from the physical universe?


#14

[quote="ngill09, post:13, topic:332969"]
Right, so his "glorified body" flew off into space, and went... where? Where in the physical universe did it fly off to? Or did it disappear from the physical universe?

[/quote]

We don't know where Heaven is. It may not be in the "physical universe" at all. If you find Heaven, you'll find His body. But God has not revealed the location. If you have Faith, and follow Christ, one day you will see His body, and your heart will be filled with infinite joy and love. Until then, it's not for any of us to know the location of Heaven, which is where His body is!


#15

[quote="DaddyGirl, post:10, topic:332969"]
Since it was strongly against Roman custom to give a crucified man "a decent burial", many New Testament scholars have long believed Jesus' post-crucifixion steps would have followed the traditional ritual of burying his body in a mass grave.

Hard to know anything for sure, tho! For obvious reasons!

[/quote]

"New Testament scholars", huh?

As a matter of fact, it is quite simple to know due to the historical accounts that we have.

Both Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus were no ordinary citizens, but members of the Jewish Sanhedrin, as well as a wealthy men. They were, in short, men of power. This is demonstrated by the very fact that Joseph of Arimathea (either alone or with him) could speak without much delay with the Roman governor in the presence of a centurion who was at the crucifixion.

Having these members of the Sinhedrin requested permission from the Roman governor to bury the dead man's body in a personal tomb - a man for whom Pilate had shown some degree of admiration, addressing Him as "king of the Jews" despite the Sinhedrin's complaint, and who was, both alive and dead, a source of controversy - it seemed most natural and most wise to grant permission to put an end to the whole story by allowing this expedite burial in a private sepulcher. To keep up with any other tradition (either of leaving the body exposed or of giving it a "traditional" burial) would have been reason for more commotion and possibly for riots.

One does not need a child's faith in order to acknowledge the reasonableness of that which Christianity has believed for two thousand years.


#16

[quote="ngill09, post:13, topic:332969"]
Right, so his "glorified body" flew off into space, and went... where? Where in the physical universe did it fly off to? Or did it disappear from the physical universe?

[/quote]

Your stumbling block is your belief that all there is is the physical, the natural. You seem to forget that it is a subset of that which is.

Plenty of philosophers and scientists have theorized and even developed sound and reasonable arguments that there is more than the physical, whether they look at space or at our mind and heart.


#17

[quote="ngill09, post:7, topic:332969"]
So, he's floating around in space somewhere?

People, I get that his spirit is in Heaven or that heaven is in him/with him wherever He goes. But where is his physical body?

[/quote]

His physical body - his arms and legs and torso and muscles and bones - is in heaven.

The problem here is that many confuse the terms physical with real and confuse these with the term sacramental.

Jesus' sacramental body is present in the Blessed Sacrament, the consecrated host. This is the entire subtance of his body, blood, soul and divinity. It is not his physical body. If the Blessed Sacrament were his physical body then there would be a 175lb man lying on the altar and the body of a 33 year old Jewish man would be stuffed into the tabernacle and we would all take a bite out of a leg or an arm.

Nowhere does the Church teach that the Eucharist is the physical presence of Jesus. Theologians are very careful never to say that. They say that it is his real presence, and it the Eucharist truly is the entire substance of Jesus' body, blood, soul and divinity present in the physical world. He is really present in the physicall world.

Jesus is not however, physically present. His sacramental presence here is real but not physical. Jesus is physically present in Heaven.

It is a subtle difference of interest mainly to theoogians. I'm sure I don't understand it to the extent that it is understandable.

But the answer is theat Jesus' physical body - his arms and legs and torso - is in Heaven.

-Tim-


#18

Your stumbling block is your belief that all there is is the physical, the natural. You seem to forget that it is a subset of that which is.

Plenty of philosophers and scientists have theorized and even developed sound and reasonable arguments that there is more than the physical, whether they look at space or at our mind and heart.

No, I even included the possibility that Jesus' body "warped" out of the physical universe. Is that what you're saying happened?

[quote="TimothyH, post:17, topic:332969"]
His physical body - his arms and legs and torso and muscles and bones - is in heaven.

The problem here is that many confuse the terms physical with real and confuse these with the term sacramental.

Jesus' sacramental body is present in the Blessed Sacrament, the consecrated host. This is the entire subtance of his body, blood, soul and divinity. It is not his physical body. If the Blessed Sacrament were his physical body then there would be a 175lb man lying on the altar and the body of a 33 year old Jewish man would be stuffed into the tabernacle and we would all take a bite out of a leg or an arm.

Nowhere does the Church teach that the Eucharist is the physical presence of Jesus. Theologians are very careful never to say that. They say that it is his real presence, and it the Eucharist truly is the entire substance of Jesus' body, blood, soul and divinity present in the physical world. He is really present in the physicall world.

Jesus is not however, physically present. His sacramental presence here is real but not physical. Jesus is physically present in Heaven.

It is a subtle difference of interest mainly to theoogians. I'm sure I don't understand it to the extent that it is understandable.

But the answer is theat Jesus' physical body - his arms and legs and torso - is in Heaven.

-Tim-

[/quote]

So Heaven is a physical place?


#19

[quote="DaddyGirl, post:10, topic:332969"]
Since it was strongly against Roman custom to give a crucified man "a decent burial", many New Testament scholars have long believed Jesus' post-crucifixion steps would have followed the traditional ritual of burying his body in a mass grave, along with the many others who were crucified that same day or around the same time.

Some ancient sources that cite the mass grave practice include: Plutarch’s Moralia 307C; Tacitus Annals 6.26, Suetonius Augustus 13, and others.

Early Christian historian and priest, John Dominic Crossan, notes that since antiquity, the remains of only one crucified victim has been found having been buried.
Hence, Crossan and retired bishop John Strong--among others--think the tradition that his body was buried by Joseph of Arimathea in the tomb is incorrect.

Other scholars say the practice at the time was also to leave the body on the cross:
Horace, Epistle 1.16.46-45; Petronius Satyricon 111-112; Artemidorius’s Dream Handbook 2.53; The Church History of Eusebius 5.1.61-62 and others.

Hard to know anything for sure, tho! For obvious reasons!

.

[/quote]

That would have been certainly the case if the victim was a real enemy of Rome or a known criminal.
Jesus however was neither, Pontius Pilatus washed his hands of the whole affair and he would have been very willing to get rid of the body of Jesus and get the sordid affair behind him.
Alas we know that it did not actually end there, it rather was the beginning. :D
:thumbsup:


#20

There are three heavens. The first is the atmosphere. The second is termed space (though once it was termed aether because it was believed it contained substance rather than emptiness, though now it is speculated that it contains dark matter, opinion seems to change every hundred years). The third is beyond the extent of universe. This is where God’s throne is.

I find it unusual that scientism believes that we will one day travel the physical universe, if we can just bend it in the right direction, or hit the right dimension, but find the possibility of a glorified body being outside the constraints of physical rules, impossible.


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