Where is the Garden of Eden?


#1

**"And he cast out Adam; and placed before the paradise of pleasure Cherubims, and a flaming sword, turning every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." Genesis 3:24

**

Where is the Garden of Eden, since we are cast out? :confused:


#2

With the Ark of the Covenant. ;)


#3

It is generally believed that is is located where the Tigris and Euphrates rivers meet, some where in modern day Iraq.


#4

A modern sattelite photograph of the area due south of where the Tigres and Euphrates meet, shows the traces of the other two rivers cited in Genesis that bordered the Garden of Eden. The area is now underwater in the Persian Gulf, South of the port of Basra.
Funny thing is that the discovery was quite accidental, and found only because a photagraph analyst knew his Bible. This discovery occured several years ago.


#5

[quote="The_Serpent, post:1, topic:325344"]
Where is the Garden of Eden, since we are cast out? :confused:

West of Nod.

[/quote]


#6

[quote="The_Serpent, post:1, topic:325344"]
**"And he cast out Adam; and placed before the paradise of pleasure Cherubims, and a flaming sword, turning every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." Genesis 3:24

**

Where is the Garden of Eden, since we are cast out? :confused:

[/quote]

In The Book of Genesis :D


#7

[quote="Luna_de_Colores, post:2, topic:325344"]
With the Ark of the Covenant. ;)

[/quote]

Do you mean in heaven, per Revelation 11?


#8

[quote="The_Serpent, post:1, topic:325344"]
**"And he cast out Adam; and placed before the paradise of pleasure Cherubims, and a flaming sword, turning every way, to keep the way of the tree of life." Genesis 3:24

**

Where is the Garden of Eden, since we are cast out? :confused:

[/quote]

The historical location is disputed, but the Church by leading us to communion with God becomes in a way the Garden of Eden, and heaven on earth.


#9

I believe the geological claims about Eden can be reconciled with Adam & Eve by a careful reading of Genesis 2:7-8.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Note that man was not created in Paradise, but was placed in it after his creation. I believe Eden is "in" eternity, but was made by God as an incarnate place that links heaven & earth specially. As evolution went on outside, humans other than Adam & Eve clearly developed - for Cain had a wife outside Eden. Once our first parents entered the world, however, the stain of impurity corrupted the creation. The infection of sin spread like a contagion to every line.

For clarity about eternity vs. time, think of the relationship between "Our World" and Narnia in C.S. Lewis' tales. There may be more reality to fiction than we fantasize about... :)

I once heard that the "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil" in Eden is so-called because it was at that tree that man's eyes were opened (for the worse). Its name during the events of Genesis was not "The Tree of...", as if God would give such names to inanimate objects. The name comes, in retrospect, from the fact that this tree was where man changed. Things are often named in retrospect by the writers of Scripture. It doesn't mean they're just symbols... though they are types.

At any rate, the physical Eden was destroyed by the Flood. Nothing was left untouched. Wherever it was, it is no longer there. I think there will be a lovely little city park with arbors and trees planted in the New Jerusalem, and there we will understand.


#10

[quote="George_Stegmeir, post:4, topic:325344"]
A modern sattelite photograph of the area due south of where the Tigres and Euphrates meet, shows the traces of the other two rivers cited in Genesis that bordered the Garden of Eden. The area is now underwater in the Persian Gulf, South of the port of Basra.
Funny thing is that the discovery was quite accidental, and found only because a photagraph analyst knew his Bible. This discovery occured several years ago.

[/quote]

I know many researchers place it in that area or in Iraq. The Euphrates and Tigris rivers are well know, so it's easy to place Eden. But the Gehon is placed in Ethiopia (Genesis 2:13), perhaps the Nile? So that makes a large area to place Eden?! The Phison river seems to be unknown.:bible1:


#11

I do wonder if that is the same as Eden in Genesis. Perhaps Eden is a higher realm or dimension?:slight_smile:


#12

I'd say so because the Hebrew word for heaven IS Garden of Eden or "gan haeden".


#13

[quote="George_Stegmeir, post:4, topic:325344"]
A modern sattelite photograph of the area due south of where the Tigres and Euphrates meet, shows the traces of the other two rivers cited in Genesis that bordered the Garden of Eden. The area is now underwater in the Persian Gulf, South of the port of Basra.
Funny thing is that the discovery was quite accidental, and found only because a photagraph analyst knew his Bible. This discovery occured several years ago.

[/quote]

Exactly! ldolphin.org/eden/

Also, the site is now flooded which provides a geologically coherent explanation for the flood described in Genesis.


#14

Narrows it down quite a bit. :wink:


#15

It has been suggested that Eden was in Asiatic Turkey, which is called Anatolia in modern times. It is here that one author writes, that we should look at the different languages in the area and the renaming of place names, including rivers. Ceyhan and Seyhan could be Pison and Gihon. However, since we are used to pronouncing certain foreign words as we see them, one author points out that Seyhan is pronounced Sa-hon in Turkey. He further states that the Kizil River is the modern name of the River of Eden. Even the word Ceyhan is pronounced locally as Jay-hon. The Tigris River is also referred to as Hiddekel. Then we have the Euphrates River.

While uncertainty still exists, I am unaware of any Catholic sources for the location of Eden.

Peace,
Ed


#16

It may be that after the great flood, the rivers that are named as Tigris or Euphrates today are not the same as the ones at the Garden of Eden. Subsequent generations may have just adopted the name.


#17

Since there is no fiery revolving sword on Earth, and Eden needed to be protected, Eden must be in Heaven somewhere. Also, the Flood came.

Jesus said, "This day you shall walk with me in Paradise." So, it must be in Heaven somewhere, I think.


#18

[quote="bsroufek, post:17, topic:325344"]
Since there is no fiery revolving sword on Earth, and Eden needed to be protected, Eden must be in Heaven somewhere. Also, the Flood came.

Jesus said, "This day you shall walk with me in Paradise." So, it must be in Heaven somewhere, I think.

[/quote]

Why would Eden need to be protected by a fiery revolving sword if it is in Heaven? People can't just walk into Heaven.


#19

[quote="Classicist, post:9, topic:325344"]
I believe the geological claims about Eden can be reconciled with Adam & Eve by a careful reading of Genesis 2:7-8.

And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed.

Note that man was not created in Paradise, but was placed in it after his creation. I believe Eden is "in" eternity, but was made by God as an incarnate place that links heaven & earth specially. As evolution went on outside, humans other than Adam & Eve clearly developed - for Cain had a wife outside Eden. Once our first parents entered the world, however, the stain of impurity corrupted the creation. The infection of sin spread like a contagion to every line.

For clarity about eternity vs. time, think of the relationship between "Our World" and Narnia in C.S. Lewis' tales. There may be more reality to fiction than we fantasize about... :)

I once heard that the "Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil" in Eden is so-called because it was at that tree that man's eyes were opened (for the worse). Its name during the events of Genesis was not "The Tree of...", as if God would give such names to inanimate objects. The name comes, in retrospect, from the fact that this tree was where man changed. Things are often named in retrospect by the writers of Scripture. It doesn't mean they're just symbols... though they are types.

At any rate, the physical Eden was destroyed by the Flood. Nothing was left untouched. Wherever it was, it is no longer there. I think there will be a lovely little city park with arbors and trees planted in the New Jerusalem, and there we will understand.

[/quote]

Excellent, I conjecture likewise that Eden is a separate creation from our current earth for it was not under the influence of the fall. Some think it is enough to be a mere concept, an idea of what it would be like if the earth was never under the influence of the fall, but the choice to sin had to be a real one and made by a real Adam and Eve. Otherwise, the fallen state is not due to sin, but just the world as it is because God thought we would sin and this is clearly not the teaching of the Church.

Often readers of Genesis seem to understand the transition of the fall to be a transition in time. Before sin things were perfect, afterward the fall and sin has corrupted the world, but today knowing things like carnivorous dinosaurs having roamed the earth before Adam could walk the earth shows this concept as false and it was always false according to a proper reading of Genesis. The written Word of Genesis is clearly read as a transition of place, from Eden to earth, not time. Earth was supposed to be a perfect place like Eden, but because of sin all of the earthโ€™s existence from beginning to end was affected and was never perfect and will never be perfect though it was originally intended to be. Eden can be thought of a outside of time because it affected all of the time allotted for this earth, but time is no barrier to God; so, Eden could well be at any time or no time, but we know it is in a perfect place.

This earth must pass away and a new heaven and new earth be made for eternal inhabitance of saved humanity. Looking for places on this fallen earth for Eden is like looking for a place that might have been if all of history from the very instant of the big bang and on was different, but indeed if sin had never been then Eden may have been right where it is described between rivers of Iraq and be a sinless garden that perfectly fits within a sinless world of some other existence.


#20

I always wondered if there were a rational explanation for that. Thanks to you both.


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