Where is the spoken word?


#1

This question is for our Bible alone friends:
Where is God’s spoken word?
2Thess tells us to hold fast the tradition, whether oral or by letter
Mk 13:31 tells us heaven and earth shall pass away, but my word won’t.
Catholics Christians say this spoken word is what we call Sacred Tradition. If the Bible says His word will not pass away, where is the Oral Word of God in your “Bible alone” beliefs? And since you believe in Bible alone, please use Scripture to show me your belief.


#2

[quote=MariaG]This question is for our Bible alone friends:
Where is God’s spoken word?
2Thess tells us to hold fast the tradition, whether oral or by letter
Mk 13:31 tells us heaven and earth shall pass away, but my word won’t.
Catholics Christians say this spoken word is what we call Sacred Tradition. If the Bible says His word will not pass away, where is the Oral Word of God in your “Bible alone” beliefs? And since you believe in Bible alone, please use Scripture to show me your belief.
[/quote]

I HAVENT GONE ANYWHERE IM HERE. :smiley:


#3

Besides Spokenword’s cute post:tiphat:, I guess I should have known better to post a new topic on the weekend. I wll see you all again on Monday. I hope to be wading through a wall of Scripture.

And BTW, I do know All Scripture is profitable, but that does not say Scripture alone nor does it address the points about the spoken words in the first post.
God Bless


#4

One of the problems with many Bible-only believers is that they automatically equate any use of the phrase “word of God” in the Bible to “scripture”. This assumption is unfounded.

Go to an online Bible and do a search on “word of God” and “word of the Lord.” Generally, you find it refers to (1) direct commands from God, like at Mt. Sinai (2) a mystical experience of God, e.g., “the word of the LORD came upon me” (3) Christ Himself (4) preaching, e.g., its use in Acts.

I grant that sometimes the phrase’s use may include or refer to scripture, but I challenge anyone to find a passage where “word of God/the LORD” unequivocally refers specifically to scripture.


#5

[quote=MariaG]This question is for our Bible alone friends:
Where is God’s spoken word?
2Thess tells us to hold fast the tradition, whether oral or by letter
Mk 13:31 tells us heaven and earth shall pass away, but my word won’t.
Catholics Christians say this spoken word is what we call Sacred Tradition. If the Bible says His word will not pass away, where is the Oral Word of God in your “Bible alone” beliefs? And since you believe in Bible alone, please use Scripture to show me your belief.
[/quote]

In scripture when Jesus was doing battle with satan on the moutain he did say to satan that IT IS WRITTEN. So Gods Word is WRITTEN. :thumbsup:


#6

[quote=SPOKENWORD]In scripture when Jesus was doing battle with satan on the moutain he did say to satan that IT IS WRITTEN. So Gods Word is WRITTEN. :thumbsup:
[/quote]

That is an excellent proof that God’s Word has a written component. No one can deny that.

It says nothing, whatsoever, however, about the multiplicity of references in the Bible that refer to the spoken Word. Why is the non-written Word discounted by “Bible-believers” when the Bible, itself, speaks so highly, and so frequently, of it?

Justin


#7

[quote=1962Missal]That is an excellent proof that God’s Word has a written component. No one can deny that.

It says nothing, whatsoever, however, about the multiplicity of references in the Bible that refer to the spoken Word. Why is the non-written Word discounted by “Bible-believers” when the Bible, itself, speaks so highly, and so frequently, of it?

Justin
[/quote]

When Jesus made this statement ,there was no complete bible only the old testement. So the answer at that time was the old testement. :thumbsup:


#8

[quote=SPOKENWORD]When Jesus made this statement ,there was no complete bible only the old testement. So the answer at that time was the old testement. :thumbsup:
[/quote]

Please reread the previous posts. No one disputes that the Bible is God’s written Word. The point is that the Bible, itself, does not equate the written Word with the entirety of God’s revealed Word. IOW, the written Word is a subset of the Word of God. Why are the numerous passages in scripture that refer to the spoken Word discounted by “Bible-believers”?

Justin


#9

[quote=1962Missal]Please reread the previous posts. No one disputes that the Bible is God’s written Word. The point is that the Bible, itself, does not equate the written Word with the entirety of God’s revealed Word. IOW, the written Word is a subset of the Word of God. Why are the numerous passages in scripture that refer to the spoken Word discounted by “Bible-believers”?

Justin
[/quote]

I guess I dont understand it? Anyways I have no problem with oral word as long as it doesnt contradict Gods written Word. :confused:


#10

But the question is not whether or not you have a problem with it, but Where is it? (Although a side note is that you do have a problem with the oral word, because Catholic oral tradition does not contradict the written Scripture, but we can discuss that after the central question is addressed.)

[left]Hold fast to what I have spoken and written to you.[/left]
[left]My word will never pass away.[/left]
[left] [/left]
[left]The Catholic Church holds that oral testimony of God is Sacred Tradition. Respectfully, where is the Oral Word of God if it is not Sacred Tradition? [/left]


#11

Quote:
Originally Posted by MariaG
This question is for our Bible alone friends:
Where is God’s spoken word?
2Thess tells us to hold fast the tradition, whether oral or by letter
Mk 13:31 tells us heaven and earth shall pass away, but my word won’t.
Catholics Christians say this spoken word is what we call Sacred Tradition. If the Bible says His word will not pass away, where is the Oral Word of God in your “Bible alone” beliefs? And since you believe in Bible alone, please use Scripture to show me your belief.

I HAVENT GONE ANYWHERE IM HERE.

Saw that coming from a mile away… :smiley:


#12

[quote=MariaG]But the question is not whether or not you have a problem with it, but Where is it? (Although a side note is that you do have a problem with the oral word, because Catholic oral tradition does not contradict the written Scripture, but we can discuss that after the central question is addressed.)

[left]Hold fast to what I have spoken and written to you.[/left]
[left]My word will never pass away.[/left]
[left] [/left]
[left]The Catholic Church holds that oral testimony of God is Sacred Tradition. Respectfully, where is the Oral Word of God if it is not Sacred Tradition? [/left]
[/quote]

The apostles spoke Gods oral word which were written down in the bible. :confused:


#13

[quote=SPOKENWORD]The apostles spoke Gods oral word which were written down in the bible. :confused:
[/quote]

It still says to hold to tradition and the spoken word. You can not discount a passage in the bible just because we have the bible. Do you catch my drift? It stiil does not mean that everything is included in the bible either.


#14

[quote=jimmy]It still says to hold to tradition and the spoken word. You can not discount a passage in the bible just because we have the bible. Do you catch my drift? It stiil does not mean that everything is included in the bible either.
[/quote]

The question is what tradition? Does that mean new traditions that were added after the apostles died. Ithought tradition are things that were practiced in the past not the future. What are the traditions the apostles were speaking about?


#15

For Example the last verse of John 21:25 tells us not everything Jesus did is written down. There are not enough books in the world. It is clear that not everything would get written down. It is not a case of hold fast to our words we spoke until we can write it all down. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that. So the question still remains. If Sacred Tradition is not the Oral word of God, where is it?

Oops Sorry, I type slow, this is not an answer to your new question.


#16

The Catholic church gets accused of making up new traditions. This in fact is not true. There is a development of understanding and new words, like the Trinity get used. The Catholic Church is clear however, that new REVELATION ended when the Apostles died. Everything else is just studying those words that were written and discussing the oral tradition and developing the understanding of them. If you study the early Church Fathers, 100, 200 and 300ad even, you can see the Catholic Church is consistent with the apostles and Scripture. This is an area I am working on. I will ask for help and leave this area, Our Church Fathers, to our more learned people.

P.S.
Frequently, I believe, you will see a rash of writings on a certain subject. Frequently, the writings were a result not of wanting to write down and preserve the teachings of the Apostles, (for that was never understood to be needed, the church was there for that), but to combat a bad teaching that had popped up. There also were Papal decrees issues at times of dissent also. This is where Catholics get accussed of inventing doctrine. But careful examination of the Church Fathers shows that is simply not true.


#17

I do not post this to be in any way gloating. And remember, this post was specifically to our bible alone friends. I asked for Scripture to show where the spoken word of God is, if it is not the Sacred Tradition. God’s words says His word will never fail. There has only been one person who could provide any Scripture at all. While that Scripture is true (obviously), God’s word is written, it is not the complete story. It does not address the Scripture telling us to hold fast to that which is written and spoken. If you believe the Bible alone is sufficient, you should be able to show me in the Bible where it says you no longer have to follow the Oral words of God because we wrote them all down now. And if you can’t find in the Bible anything about not following that oral word, maybe you should start looking for where that oral word of God is located.

God Bless


#18

[quote=MariaG]This question is for our Bible alone friends:
Where is God’s spoken word?
2Thess tells us to hold fast the tradition, whether oral or by letter
Mk 13:31 tells us heaven and earth shall pass away, but my word won’t.
Catholics Christians say this spoken word is what we call Sacred Tradition. If the Bible says His word will not pass away, where is the Oral Word of God in your “Bible alone” beliefs? And since you believe in Bible alone, please use Scripture to show me your belief.
[/quote]

Are you asking the Sola Scriptura people on this board or the Solo Scriptura people? I have made comment on this on the “Why I rejected Sola Scriptura” thread. It should answer your question. Please look there. If you are commenting on Sola Scriptura then you are commenting on what you do not understand.

The simplest thing to say is this.

The scriptures that enter a person by way of ears is no less that the scriptures that enter a person by way of eyes. The blind and the illiterate need not worry.


#19

For those that think that the word of God can only be found in scripture than I am sorry I am almost certain that you are wrong.


#20

Shibboleth,

No, I am not referring to Sola Scriptura, but Solo Scruptura, those who believe God’s word is only found in the Bible and the Bible alone. We both agree (I think) that this cannot be supported from the very Bible they solely believe in. I am asking for Scripture telling us that we no longer have to hold fast to the words, oral and written. Scripture that tells us that all we need has been written down now, Is contained in the Scripture, and you can now ignore the oral teachings of the church.
God Bless


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.