Where is your permission for any priest to use the 1962 missal? Rumours prove to be untrue


#1

People thought there would be an official statement from the vatican allowing all priests to say the 1962 missal, releasing the current situation of having to beg the bishop to do so here on Easter.
So where is that statement from the Vatican?
I am beginning to think it will never happen.


#2

See, if yuda red my posts on this u woodn’t be in this state of mind…suddenly.
Sometimes I feel like a small voice cryn in the dessert.:frowning:


#3

I doubt it will come now too!. I asked the head priest here at the local National Roman Catholic Polish Shrine here in Eastern Pennsylvania, about if he would have a Tridentine Mass if the MP went through. Figuring that the Pauline Order is a pretty conservative order, and from Poland. But he said that he wouldn’t. “No one understands Latin, and I like the Mass the way it is” was his words. Sad thing is I spent around $45.00 for a 1962 Missal. I guess I can use it now for reference only. As it will collect dust on my bookshelf, with no use. Thanks to all those NO people. Good thing though is I still have the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostem at the local Orthodox Church to go to. Since I don’t attend NO Masses any more. Might even become a Catechumen in the Orthodox Church this year. Where the majority know what a “Traditional Liturgy” is and never question that tradition.


#4

Is there any difference between walking away from Peter and walking away from Christ, as those did who could not accept His teachings on the Eucharist?


#5

From last Sunday’s interview with Cardinal Bertone in *Le Figaro:

Is a Decree broadening the possibility of celebrating the Latin Mass according to the rite from before Vatican II (the so-called Mass of St. Pius V) still planned?

Cardinal Bertone: … the Missal published in 1962 by Pope John XXIII, with its own calendar, … there is no valid reason not to grant to every priest in the whole world the right to celebrate according to this form. … The publication of the Motu Proprio detailing this authorization will take place (“aura lieu”), but it will be the Pope himself who will spell out his reasons and the framework of his decision. The Sovereign Pontiff will personally give his vision for using the old Missal to the Christian people and in particular to the bishops.

Be patient and pray. The Vatican moves at it’s own pace, not ours. There are many factors involved in this Motu Proprio, and finding the right time for it’s release is imperative.


#6

I thought I’d heard it was supposed to be realeased sometime during the Easter Season. The Easter Season ends at Pentecost, doesn’t it? I’m praying it will happen. Also, signs seem to point to the good possiblity it will happen. The FSSP is holding workshops in June to teach priests to say the Latin Mass.

I guess we must (continue to) be patient. :slight_smile:


#7

Are you Orthodox or Catholic though? If your Orthodox why are you interested in the TLM? If your Catholic why would you go to the “Liturgy of St John Chrysostem” which wouldn’t fulfill your Sunday Obligation.

Catholig


#8

Technically Roman Catholic. Went to a Roman Catholic School, before High School. Went to University, where I was part of the John Don Scotus Catholic Community (A Franciscan Community). After University spent the better part of six years, studying Eastern Orthodox/Byzantine Catholic spirituality, on my own. Since, what I was seeing in Roman Catholicism, was far different then what I was looking for in my Roman Catholic faith and spirituality. Examples: Gregorian Chant, TLM, monastic Spirituality, teachings from ancient Church fathers, like Benedict, Francis, Dominic, Anthony, Bede, Ephraim the Syrian, by priests, Holy scripture, etcc. These teachings were being replaced by modern day issues, modern day theologies, from modern day theologians mostly at homilies. So I ventured East, to the original sources, as Kallistos Ware would put it. Their I have found, a strong monastic tradition, unchanged and beautiful Liturgy. A sense of awe and reverence, strong devotion to the teachings of the early church fathers, quoted by many priests at their homilies, and Holy scripture. All I here is talk about abortion. Sure it is wrong and a deadly sin. But what about Europeans loosing their faith, and the constant death that is taking place in countries like Iraq. They are equally important. Even in Coptic Orthodoxy, which is the Alexandrian Church of Egypt their is a deep monastic spiritual tradition a deep sense of reverence in their liturgy, the Liturgy of St Mark, a deep reverence of the teachings of the early church fathers by priests and lay people as well as Holy scripture. So their you have it. Why I talk so much about Orthodoxy. Things you will not find in Roman Catholicism, unless the clerics, monastics, and lay people start going back to their original, traditional sources. And not relying so much on modern day theology and practices. :thumbsup:


#9

Sorry if this offends some people. But to me this is more important in my spirituality, and the safety of my soul, then just meeting a Sunday Obligation.


#10

Actually one can fulfill their “Sunday Obligation” by attending the Divine Liturgy of St John Chrysostom. That would be by attending one of the Byzantine Catholic Churches.


#11

Ah, but does your spirituality include things that are Catholic and therefore not acknowledged in the Orthodox Church. If so, then going to the Orthodox Church is not the right thing to do.

But by this statement I see that obedience to the Church is not part of your spirituality.

What about the various Byzantine Catholic Churches? If you are in Pennsylvania then there must be some around you.

Also, I would have to say, that if you have access to an abuse free normative Mass and you are refusing to attend that then there are other deeper issues that need to be dealt with.

Even if this Motu Proprio does come out that does not mean that you will have any greater access to the TLM.

If you are willing to attend a different rite, namely the Divine Liturgy, then I do not see what is wrong with the normative Mass of the Latin Church if it is abuse free.


#12

While I sympathize with your desire for more exposure to the “traditional sources,” I hope you realize that you may very well be committing a mortal sin if you walk away from the Catholic Church. Of course, this depends on whether you believe Orthodoxy or Catholicism to be the one true Church (in other words, which church is in schism from the other and which has retained all four marks of apostolicity, recognizing that both churches are apostolic in origin), but since you are currently still in communion with the Catholic Church as governed by the Bishop of Rome, which holds that the Eastern churches are in schism, if you’re only reason for leaving is that you’re no longer willing to suffer through a liturgy that doesn’t suit your tastes and a lack of references to venerable theologians from centuries past, I’m afraid the Catholic Church doesn’t see that as a legitimate reason to leave.


#13

You should be concerned about your spirtuality, and safety of soul, but you are not helping your soul by avoiding your Sunday Obligation. Indeed you are harming it, because it is a sin to do so.

Catholig


#14

Orthodox Churches do have valid orders and sacraments according to the Roman Catholic Church. So I highly doubt it is a mortal sin. When the TLM is fully restored in every Roman Catholic parish, not just a few, along with the Gregorian Chant, like every like minded Traditional Catholic wants. Then I will return. I see no legitimate reason why the TLM should not be made available in every parish. The Pope wants more Latin used in the NO Mass, then the priests will have to learn Latin anyway. But until that happens. I will not just stay home, and listen to Gregorian Chants on CD every Sunday. I will attend the Divine Liturgy, and be part of a living tradition . And this is not just to suit my taste. It is for the faith and practice I believe in. As well as the nourishment of my soul.


#15

Actually if you are a Catholic then you are bound by the Catholic Church’s laws which do state that this is a mortal sin.

This is cafeteria Catholicism at its finest. Placing yourself as the authority and be damned with obedience.

Not to mention the fact that if you are receiving the Eucharist there then you are violating both the laws of the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church.

When the TLM is fully restored in every Roman Catholic parish, not just a few, along with the Gregorian Chant, like every like minded Traditional Catholic wants. Then I will return. I see no legitimate reason why the TLM should not be made available in every parish. The Pope wants more Latin used in the NO Mass, then the priests will have to learn Latin anyway. But until that happens. I will not just stay home, and listen to Gregorian Chants on CD every Sunday. I will attend the Divine Liturgy, and be part of a living tradition . And this is not just to suit my taste. It is for the faith and practice I believe in. As well as the nourishment of my soul.

Do you believe in the validity of the normative Mass?


#16

Their sacraments may be valid, but they’re not licit. The only acceptable reason for a Catholic to attend an Orthodox liturgy on Sunday instead of a Catholic Mass is if there was no way for them to get to a Catholic Church that Sunday to fulfill their Sunday obligation, not as a preference. Catholics are supposed to attend Catholic Masses, period. As others have pointed out, couldn’t you find a Byzantine Catholic Church in your area that you could attend?


#17

Well tell your priests that souls are being harmed, because Traditional Catholics are unable to meet their Sunday Obligation. Because they refuse to attend the NO Mass. And the majority of parishes in the world refuse offer the Mass of our ancient fathers, the Mass of St. Gregory the Great, the Mass that lasted for hundreds of years. So the only option is the Liturgies of the East, which are even older, but still offered.


#18

It’s NOT the priests fault that YOU are choosing to sin. Take responsibility for your own sin instead of attempting to pass the buck


#19

Seconded.

Catholig


#20

I could, but shouldn’t we be ecumenical. The Orthodox Church I attend, is very beautiful. The local Ukranian Catholic Church, doesn’t even have one painted Icon on the walls. The Orthodox Church also has Vespers and Matins as well. The Ukranian Catholic Church, only has the Liturgy. So to me. I see more of the Byzantine tradition contributing to my faith in the local Orthodox parish.

Here is their website: st-philip.net/index_frames.html :thumbsup:

On a side note. There was to be a local Ruthenian Parish, in my area. But the Ruthenian Archdioces of Pasiac NJ, shut that down. And our priest returned back to the Orthodox Church, since his Byzantine Catholic mission parish was dropped.


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