Where Muhammad gets his science wrong


#1

If Muslims suggest that the understanding of science shown by their prophet Muhammad is so profound as to be supernatural, then they must accept that if Muhammad gets any science wrong, then he cannot be a messenger from God.
There are two particular statements which fall into my area of expertise:
1)where sperm/semen comes from
2) how many joints there are in the body
I will deal with the latter first as it is easier to deal with

“Aisha reported Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Every one of the children of Adam has been created with three hundred and sixty joints; so he who declares the Glory of Allah, praises Allah, declares Allah to be One, Glorifies Allah, and seeks forgiveness from Allah, and removes stone, or thorn, or bone from people’s path, and enjoins what is good and forbids from evil, to the number of those three hundred and sixty-four, will walk that day having removed himself from Hell. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Zakat (Kitab Al-Zakat), Book 005, Number 2199)”

Narrated Buraydah ibn al-Hasib: “I heard the Apostle of Allah peace_be_upon_him) say: A human being has three hundred and sixty joints for each of which he must give alms. The people asked him: Who is capable of doing this? He replied: It may be mucus in the mosque which you bury, and something which you remove from the road; but if you do not find such, two rak’ahs in the forenoon will be sufficient for you. (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, General Behavior (Kitab Al-Adab), Book 41, Number 5222)”

This is undeniably and provenly wrong. Even more revealing, we find that Chinese philosophers said there were 360 joints in the body. So we see that “Muhammad” had an earthly fallible source for his “amazing knowledge”.
We find in the Koran this:

“Now let man but think from what he is created! He is created from a drop emitted - Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs:” S. 86:5-7

This also is very definitely not true! As everyone knows, the spermatazoa come from the testes, and the semen is produced by the addition of fluid from the seminal vesicles and the prostate. Nowhere near the ribs!
So again Mohammed is proved wrong!
So Mohammed did not hear from God, but the deceiver, the Father of Lies, the fallen angel, Lucifer himself.


#2

Dear Jack,

Muhammad’s science is not the real problem. Its his claim that he was a prophet that is.

:wink:


#3

not just that but the “Seal of the Prophets”, and therefore higher than Jesus Christ!


#4

Well sure. But, lets get real and blame Sara.

She did not trust in God’s promise and tried to “help” God out.

Thus, we have Hagar, thus,

So, lets put the blame where it belongs.:wink:


#5

Or, we could just NOT bash Muslims, just a thought.


#6

Quite truthfully, I did not realize Sara was Muslim.


#7

The Qur’an doesn’t say sperm comes from ‘anywhere near’ the ribs, it says God created man from sperm emitted from between the ribs and backbone. Sperm *is *emitted from ‘between’ the ribs and backbone, the expression used here doesn’t exclude it being below them since it only denotes being ‘between’ (I’m not sure how to explain this). To make a couple of dodgy diagrams:

Explore Daniel Lindley

Ok you say can that the ‘A’ is between the line of plus symbols and forward slashes here no problem, but here’s the important bit crucial to understanding

Explore Daniel Lindley

In this diagram you can also say that the ‘A’ is between (the Arabic word is ‘bayni’) the line of plus symbols and forward slashes even though it’s below them, since it’s still ‘between’ them (if you can see why).

Hope that makes sense…


#8

I’m sold.:rolleyes:


#9

So which parts of the human body is not covered by that second explanation? The rump? An overhanging beer gut? Parts of the face? The toes?

That makes the explanatory power of that verse especially great, knowing that practically the entire human body is covered and the sperm can come from almost anywhere on the human body.

I’m convinced. Where do I sign up?


#10

Is it the claim of Muslims in general that the scientific strength of the Qu’ran is a mark of its Divinely inspired nature, or is that simply the theory put forth by certain posters on this board?

C


#11

It is a 20th century phenomenon that Muslims began to claim the Quran is ‘super scientific’ and contains scientific knowledge unknown to people of the 7th century - thus proving the divine origin of the Quran.

In these cases the Muslim apologists are almost wholly ignorant of real science or the history of science, having wasted their lives studying the Quran instead of doing something useful like actually opening a science textbook.


#12

So it seems even Muslims have to backup into desperate defenses of Qur’anic “science.” This post accomplishes what it sets out to do: shatters the awe Muslim apologists try to instill in their potential converts.


#13

Al-hamdu lilah!

Way to expose Islam for the lie that it is!

Here a few of my personal favorites.

Sahih Al-Bukhari: Volume 4, Book 54, Number 540:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Umar:
Allah’s Apostle ordered that the dogs should be killed.

Sahih Al-Bukhari: Volume 4, Book 54, Number 537:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said “If a house fly falls in the drink of anyone of you, he should dip it (in the drink), for one of its wings has a disease and the other has the cure for the disease.”

Sahih Al-Bukhari: Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421:
Narrated Abu Dhar:
The Prophet asked me at sunset, “Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?” I replied, “Allah and His Apostle know better.” He said, "It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: “And the sun Runs its fixed course For a term (decreed). that is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing.” (36.38)

Sahih Al-Bukhari: Volume 4, Book 54, Number 516:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “If anyone of you rouses from sleep and performs the ablution, he should wash his nose by putting water in it and then blowing it out thrice, because Satan has stayed in the upper part of his nose all the night.”

Sahih Al-Bukhari: Volume 2, Book 21, Number 245:
Narrated 'Abdullah :
A person was mentioned before the Prophet (p.b.u.h) and he was told that he had kept on sleeping till morning and had not got up for the prayer. The Prophet said, “Satan urinated in his ears.”

Sahih Al-Bukhari: Volume 4, Book 54, Number 509:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, “Yawning is from Satan and if anyone of you yawns, he should check his yawning as much as possible, for if anyone of you (during the act of yawning) should say: ‘Ha’, Satan will laugh at him.”

Sahih Al-Bukhari: Volume 3, Book 48, Number 826:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
The Prophet said, “Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?” The women said, “Yes.” He said, “This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.”

Sahih Al-Bukhari: Volume 7, Book 62, Number 142:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet used to pass by (have sexual relation with) all his wives in one night, and at that time he had nine wives.

I think this calls for a special picture.

zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/euro_medi_ren/Dendermonde2.jpg

That’s Mohammed and the Koran being trampled by angles.


#14

well it doesn’t make any sense really - since virtually the whole body is between the ribs and spine
would you say the Koran is saying something so facile as to be ridiculous? better that than saying it got it plain wrong I guess?
jeusluv - was your comment about my OP? if not, apologies
this issue has been brought several times recently by one Muslim poster so it is important to properly examine it


#15

Why are people afraid of discussion on a debate site?


#16

Or, to extend your logic it could have meant ‘above’ them as there’s nothing to say that this too could have been the case - but in hindsight we know where it really is made. In other words, the Koran ends up saying, according to you “Sperm is created in the body”. It makes your Koranic verse so very less profound!


#17

There’s whole web-sites by Moslems about the miracle of the Koran and science.
Such as this…

tempemasjid.com/maurice/20human.htm
Where it says
The situation is quite different in the Qur’an. The Book mentions precise mechanisms in many places and describes clearly-defined stages in reproduction, without providing a single statement marred by inaccuracy. Everything in the Qur’an is explained in simple terms which are easily understandable to man and in strict accordance with what was to be discovered much later on.

You just need to get about more!:slight_smile:


#18

How a baby’s gender is decided?
Volume 5, Book 58, Number 275:

Narrated Anas:

When the news of the arrival of the Prophet at Medina reached 'Abdullah bin Salam, he went to him to ask him about certain things, He said, “I am going to ask you about three things which only a Prophet can answer: What is the first sign of The Hour? What is the first food which the people of Paradise will eat? Why does a child attract the similarity to his father or to his mother?” The Prophet replied, “Gabriel has just now informed me of that.” Ibn Salam said, "He (i.e. Gabriel) is the enemy of the Jews amongst the angels. The Prophet said, “As for the first sign of The Hour, it will be a fire that will collect the people from the East to the West. As for the first meal which the people of Paradise will eat, it will be the caudate (extra) lobe of the fish-liver. **As for the child, if the man’s discharge proceeds the woman’s discharge, the child attracts the similarity to the man, and if the woman’s discharge proceeds the man’s, then the child attracts the similarity to the woman.” **

On this, 'Abdullah bin Salam said, “I testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, and that you are the Apostle of Allah.” and added, "O Allah’s Apostle! Jews invent such lies as make one astonished, so please ask them about me before they know about my conversion to I slam . " The Jews came, and the Prophet said, “What kind of man is 'Abdullah bin Salam among you?” They replied, "The best of us and the son of the best of us and the most superior among us, and the son of the most superior among us. "The Prophet said, “What would you think if 'Abdullah bin Salam should embrace Islam?” They said, “May Allah protect him from that.” The Prophet repeated his question and they gave the same answer. Then 'Abdullah came out to them and said, “I testify that None has the right to be worshipped except Allah and that Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah!” On this, the Jews said, “He is the most wicked among us and the son of the most wicked among us.” So they degraded him. On this, he (i.e. 'Abdullah bin Salam) said, "It is this that I was afraid of, O Allah’s Apostle.
usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/058.sbt.html#005.058.275


#19

I can’t comment for Muslims in general, but I know it is often used to gain converts, and I had a Muslim guy posting me “miraculous science” stuff for a few weeks. So it is a well-recognized claim of Muslims, which needs to be repudiated.
As you can see one Muslim poster hamba2han has been posting extensively on the topic, so it is obligatory for us to defend our faith:thumbsup:
:signofcross:


#20

Another Islamic site crowing about the science of the Koran deals with the ‘cat’s eye nebula’.

It first gives a convincing picture*, and then the Koranic verse
"When the sky is torn apart, so it was (like) a red rose, like ointment." Qur’an (55:37)

The amazingly long leap of this depends solely upon which exposure one makes of the nebula.
Firstly, here’s a list of other translations
However, other translations of the Koran state
And when the heaven splitteth asunder and becometh rosy like red hide - (Pickthall)
When the sky is rent asunder, and it becomes red like ointment: (Yusuf Ali)
And when the heaven splits up and turns crimson like red hide (Nooruddin)
And when the heaven is rent asunder, and then becomes red like red hide. (Shakir)
When the sky disintegrates, and turns rose collared like paint. (Khalifa)
And when the sky is rent asunder, and becomes red like [burning] oil (Asad)
Then when the heaven is rent asunder, and it becomes rosy or red like red oil, or red hide - (Hilali and Khan)
When the sky splits asunder and reddens like a rose or stained leather (Dawud)
And when the heaven shall be cleft asunder, and become rose red, like stained leather (Rodwell)
And when heaven is torn asunder, and turns crimson like red leather (Arberry)
And when the heaven is rent asunder and become rosy red - (melting) like grease! (Palmer)
And when the heaven shall be rent in sunder, and shall become [red as] a rose, [and shall melt] like ointment: (Sale)

answering-islam.org/Quran/Science/rose-nebula.html

The common word here is that it is ‘red’.
The Crab Nebula for instance is red, but only when viewed in infra-red, as opposed to
X-ray - purple
Optical - blue
Radio - crimson

The same for this. So by shopping around for a nebula picture exposed in red, they get a red sky!!!

So, if you view any nebula, it can be red, if you see it in one particular spectrum. So this makes the ‘redness’ of it meaningless too!

Further to that, a nebula is the end of a star, not the end of the universe.

*picture seen also at
antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap991031.html

Further, this is another quote from that Islamic site "Then He turned to the heaven when it was smoke… (Quran, 41:11)
I am unaware of any prevailing scientific theory that the heavens came from smoke.
“Have not those who disbelieved known that the heavens and the earth were one connected entity, then We separated them?”… (Quran, 21:30)
This might be a ‘Big Bang’ explanation. It might not be. It is not conclusive at all.

Here’s a few more errors:

The earth is shaped like an egg
"He (God) made the earth egg-shaped" Sura 79:30.

Where the sun goes
Volume 4, Book 54, Number 421:
Narrated Abu Dharr:
The Prophet asked me at sunset, “Do you know where the sun goes (at the time of sunset)?” I replied, “Allah and His Apostle know better.” He said, “It goes (i.e. travels) till it prostrates Itself underneath the Throne and takes the permission to rise again, and it is permitted and then (a time will come when) it will be about to prostrate itself but its prostration will not be accepted, and it will ask permission to go on its course but it will not be permitted, but it will be ordered to return whence it has come and so it will rise in the west. And that is the interpretation of the Statement of Allah: ?And the sun Runs its fixed course for a term (decreed). That is The Decree of (Allah) The Exalted in Might, The All-Knowing.?” (36.38)

These issues are raised at the various links from:
answering-islam.org/Quran/index.html


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