Where to, America, Western Civilization...?


#1

It is sometimes overwhelming when one is confronted by attitudes and ideas that seem to threaten to undermine the very existence of our society. I came across an article called AMERICA'S PARENTS: WHERE IS YOUR OUTRAGE? and the article began with this quote -

"To feed a starving child is to exacerbate the world over population problem." --Dr. LaMont Cole, Yale University environmentalist

. A little further into the article and I read how one of my own countrymen, Professor Peter Singer, now a Bioethicist at Princeton University has suggested that -

"...parents should have the right to kill infants up to 28 days old who have severe disabilities because at that age "children don't understand what it means to be alive. Those with serious health and physical concerns may ultimately be burdens on society."

The article then lists those things which are being taught at schools and universities which are effectively undermining our western societies. Although the article concentrates on the US education system, it is similar to what is happening in Australia and elsewhere. It is all an affront to Catholicism in particular and Christianity in general.
So, where to.....?


#2

[quote="John21652, post:1, topic:188763"]
It is sometimes overwhelming when one is confronted by attitudes and ideas that seem to threaten to undermine the very existence of our society.

It is all an affront to Catholicism in particular and Christianity in general.
So, where to.....?

[/quote]

Where every other corrupt and decadent "civilization" has ended.
Heaven knows weve had enough warnings!
We
ve learnt NOTHING from history!

To put it bluntly: i refuse to believe that the "democratically elected" politicians and others, including Peter Sing Sing (deliberate mis-spelling: it seems appropriate), who are inflicting this on the West, are in the state of grace. We may as well include the "news" media in with this lot.
Let`s be honest: when our souls are in the wrong state, our intellects are darkened.
The only charitable option is that some of them are insane.

Yeah; im angry about it, but at least some of us have enough sense to see whats going on.
And we know Who ultimately wins.

Boneheaded Catholics who know virtually nothing about the Faith, and who insist on continuing to know virtually nothing about the Faith, have something to answer for when they vote the way so many of them do, and reject vital Church teachings. Lousy "Catholics" have been the cause of the Church`s woes throughout so much of Her history.
On Doomsday, our Lord might have to apologise to Judas.
To misquote "Animal Farm": "All Catholics are sinners; but some are more sinners.".

End of rant......famous last words......


#3

Check out this debate between Professor Singer and Dinesh D'Souza about Christianity and Morality. youtube.com/watch?v=Phgb67NAaHA

Mr. D'Souza is a great debater and a sound apologist against these kinds of modern Utilitarians. :thumbsup:


#4

The problem stems from the very foundations of philosophy. Folks like Singer reject God and reject any kind of absolute morality.

The answer is to stand up and answer the new Evangalization. Don’t let the opposition try to command the moral high ground by twisting the language of morality (freedom, judgement, hate, etc.) and shouting down the truth. These are the weapons of the Devil.

Pray. Learn. Study how to refute the sophist arguments. We need to take back academia.

The good news is that the Devil can’t win. However, how hard we choose to fight will probably influence how much we suffer.

Take a look at my signature quote, below. I really believe it.


#5

Ok... first of all these aren't new so we should all relax a little and understand that there have been goofy out of touch professors saying stupid things like this for... probably forever but for at least the past 70 years.

When Watson and Crick identified the human genome there was a new rash of Eugenics professors saying similar things back int he 1950s and this was barley 10 years after the atrocities of what the Nazi's had done with theirs.

The best thing that can be done IMHO is to ignore these idiots because we have more important things, like helping a majority of Americans understand when life begins, rather than wasting time on a few idiots.

Joe


#6

[quote="jwashu, post:5, topic:188763"]
Ok... first of all these aren't new so we should all relax a little and understand that there have been goofy out of touch professors saying stupid things like this for... probably forever but for at least the past 70 years.

When Watson and Crick identified the human genome there was a new rash of Eugenics professors saying similar things back int he 1950s and this was barley 10 years after the atrocities of what the Nazi's had done with theirs.

The best thing that can be done IMHO is to ignore these idiots because we have more important things, like helping a majority of Americans understand when life begins, rather than wasting time on a few idiots.

Joe

[/quote]

Problem is that these few idiots are successfully infiltrating academia and politics. There's a reason why we have the most pro-abortion president in history. There's a reason why a very substantial minority thinks that gay "marriage" is somehow OK, and that those who oppose it are just hate mongers.

That reason is garbage philosophies that have had their roots in folks like the Eugenicists you referred to, in secular humanism.

I think we have ignored too long and it is time, in charity and respect and gentleness, to stand up and refute them.


#7

[quote="ContegoFides, post:6, topic:188763"]
Problem is that these few idiots are successfully infiltrating academia and politics.
....
I think we have ignored too long and it is time, in charity and respect and gentleness, to stand up and refute them.

[/quote]

I agree! They are in politics and policy making now, and we have only seen the beginning of the fallout so far. Regarding these particular nutcases, I'm really surprised that President Obama hasn't recruited them yet into his administration, as Save-the-Planet-Czars and Ration-the-Healthcare-Czars, or whatever! :rolleyes: He already has exactly this kind of whackadoos working for him, pushing for legislation such as government takeover of healthcare, and cap and trade bill. This is not academic! As soon as they can enact such legislation, they will be in charge of life and death (government-controlled healthcare), and can bankrupt the economy at will (with cap and trade), just to push their save-the-planet lunacy!

Right now there's a Harvard law professor named Cass Sunstein in President Obama's administration, working as Regulatory Czar, who wants to control everything from free speech on the internet and removing people's organs without their consent, to banning hunting and fishing, and phasing out meat consumption through regulatory means. Here's a selection of the ideas and agenda of the oh-so-brilliant Professor Cass Sunstein, President Obama's Regulatory Czar, or head of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs in the Office of Management and Budget, to give his full title:

prweb.com/releases/Cass-Sunstein/Animal-Rights/prweb1868134.htm

Obama 'Regulatory Czar' has Secret Animal-Rights Agenda, Says Consumer Group

Cass Sunstein supports outlawing hunting, phasing out meat eating, giving animals the right to file lawsuits; expert available for comment eliminating current practices such as … meat eating.

Washington, D.C. (Vocus/PRWEB ) January 15, 2009 -- The nonprofit Center for Consumer Freedom said today that Cass Sunstein, the Harvard University Law School professor tapped by President-elect Obama to head the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, has a secret aim to push a radical animal-rights agenda in the White House. Sunstein supports outlawing sport hunting, giving animals the legal right to file lawsuits, and using government regulations to phase out meat consumption.

In a 2007 speech at Harvard University, Sunstein argued in favor of entirely "eliminating current practices such as … meat eating." He also proposed: "We ought to ban hunting, I suggest, if there isn't a purpose other than sport and fun. That should be against the law. It's time now."

Sunstein wrote in his 2004 book "Animal Rights: Current Debates and New Directions" that "animals should be permitted to bring suit, with human beings as their representatives … Any animals that are entitled to bring suit would be represented by (human) counsel, who would owe guardian-like obligations and make decisions, subject to those obligations, on their clients' behalf."

The Center for Consumer Freedom's Director of Research, David Martosko, is available to discuss Cass Sunstein's likely impact on typical elements of American life that involve the use of animals. Sunstein's work could spell the end of animal agriculture, retail sales of meat and dairy foods, hunting and fishing, biomedical research, pet ownership, zoos and aquariums, traveling circuses, and countless other things Americans take for granted.

Mr. Martosko said: "Cass Sunstein owes Americans an honest appraisal of his animal rights agenda as America's top regulator. Americans don't realize that the next four years could be full of bizarre initiatives plucked from the wildest dreams of the animal-rights fringe. Think about every outrageous idea PETA and the Humane Society of the United States have ever had, and imagine them all having the force of federal law. This doesn't look good for hunters, ranchers, restaurateurs, biomedical researchers, or ordinary pet owners."

cnsnews.com/news/print/53534

Obama Regulation Czar Advocated Removing People’s Organs Without Explicit Consent

(CNSNews.com) – Cass Sunstein, President Barack Obama’s nominee to head the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs (OIRA), has advocated a policy under which the government would “presume” someone has consented to having his or her organs removed for transplantation into someone else when they die unless that person has explicitly indicated that his or her organs should not be taken.

Under such a policy, hospitals would harvest organs from people who never gave permission for this to be done.

Well, I took a trip to the Department of Motor Vehicles, to have my name removed from the organ donor list, in the current climate of abuse by "creative" transplant surgeons - surgeons who remove organs from living accident victims, not waiting for them to die first, so that they can transplant the organs and further their academic careers...

continued...


#8

...continued

wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=96301

U.S. regulatory czar nominee wants Net 'Fairness Doctrine'
Cass Sunstein sees Web as anti-democratic, proposed 24-hour delay on sending e-mail

WASHINGTON – Barack Obama's nominee for "regulatory czar" has advocated a "Fairness Doctrine" for the Internet that would require opposing opinions be linked and also has suggested angry e-mails should be prevented from being sent by technology that would require a 24-hour cooling off period.

The revelations about Cass Sunstein, Obama's friend from the University of Chicago Law School and nominee to head the White House Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs, come in a new book by Brad O'Leary, "Shut Up, America! The End of Free Speech." OIRA will oversee regulation throughout the U.S. government.

Sunstein also has argued in his prolific literary works that the Internet is anti-democratic because of the way users can filter out information of their own choosing.

"A system of limitless individual choices, with respect to communications, is not necessarily in the interest of citizenship and self-government," he wrote. "Democratic efforts to reduce the resulting problems ought not be rejected in freedom's name."

Sunstein first proposed the notion of imposing mandatory "electronic sidewalks" for the Net. These "sidewalks" would display links to opposing viewpoints. Adam Thierer, senior fellow and director of the Center for Digital Media Freedom at the Progress and Freedom Center, has characterized the proposal as "The Fairness Doctrine for the Internet."

"Apparently in Sunstein's world, people have many rights, but one of them, it seems, is not the right to be left alone or seek out the opinions one desires," Thierer wrote.
...
"As one of America's leading constitutional scholars, Cass Sunstein has distinguished himself in a range of fields, including administrative law and policy, environmental law, and behavioral economics," said Obama at his nomination of his regulatory czar. "He is uniquely qualified to lead my administration's regulatory reform agenda at this crucial stage in our history. Cass is not only a valued adviser, he is a dear friend and I am proud to have him on my team."

O'Leary disagrees.

"It's hard to imagine President Obama nominating a more dangerous candidate for regulatory czar than Cass Sunstein," he says. "Not only is Sunstein an animal-rights radical, but he also seems to have a serious problem with our First Amendment rights. Sunstein has advocated everything from regulating the content of personal e-mail communications, to forcing nonprofit groups to publish information on their websites that is counter to their beliefs and mission. Of course, none of this should be surprising from a man who has said that 'limitless individual choices, with respect to communications, is not necessarily in the interest of citizenship and self-government.' If it were up to Obama and Sunstein, everything we read online – right down to our personal e-mail communications – would have to be inspected and approved by the federal government."


#9

[quote="Joseph_L_Varga, post:8, topic:188763"]
...continued

[/quote]

So, let me get this straight....
If animals are given the right to sue in Law, then running over a rabbit on the road could tie me up in court for ten years?!
Well, we better make sure the witness can't talk.
Take him home and eat him. :D


#10

[quote="John21652, post:9, topic:188763"]
So, let me get this straight....
If animals are given the right to sue in Law, then running over a rabbit on the road could tie me up in court for ten years?!
Well, we better make sure the witness can't talk.
Take him home and eat him. :D

[/quote]

We should get rid of all of the galahs, chickens and bustards that are in power, along with assorted insects and reptiles.


#11

[quote="John21652, post:9, topic:188763"]
So, let me get this straight....
If animals are given the right to sue in Law, then running over a rabbit on the road could tie me up in court for ten years?!
Well, we better make sure the witness can't talk.
Take him home and eat him. :D

[/quote]

:thumbsup: :D


#12

[quote="SunnaB16, post:10, topic:188763"]
We should get rid of all of the galahs, chickens and bustards that are in power.

[/quote]

:thumbsup:

Do you have the crazies in power in Australia, too?


#13

[quote="Joseph_L_Varga, post:12, topic:188763"]
:thumbsup:

Do you have the crazies in power in Australia, too?

[/quote]

Oh, they are working on it.
The Global Warming brigade have the reins of power in Canberra. They tried very hard to bring in an ETS scheme just prior to Copenhagen. The ETS scheme is nothing more than an income re-distribution scheme and if it had won ground in Copenhagen, would have been instituted on an internationl scale, with money flowing from west to east and the west made to feel guilty.

In some of our Universities, Marxist thought has been a problem for many years. Utilitarianism is taught in University Philosophy courses and thanks to our very own, but you've got a lend of him at Princeton, Professor Peter Singer, this gives licence to the jar head animal liberationists and animal rightists, not to mention the pro-choice brigade who would tell us a foetus has no more right to life than a cow.

We've got a bag full of left wing do-gooders who can think of nothing better to do than moan about the evils of capitalism, make non-discrimination an issue in everything and who have gradually watered down our Judeo-Christian heritage.

The problems associated with these non Christian liberal philosophies is rampant in the west. Take a look at the liberalisation going on in that most Catholic of countries, Spain, and fear for the west's traditions. We really need to fight back.


#14

[quote="Joseph_L_Varga, post:12, topic:188763"]
:thumbsup:

Do you have the crazies in power in Australia, too?

[/quote]

`FRAID SO!
Most Australians are no more intelligent than sheep.


#15

[quote="SunnaB16, post:14, topic:188763"]
`FRAID SO!
Most Australians are no more intelligent than sheep.

[/quote]

Actually, that's not quite true. The trouble is, and I think it's a problem common to most western, developed nations, is that most people no longer think critically. Consequently, the media can dish up all sorts of nonsense as our daily bread of news headlines and most people just accept it at face value. The Global Warming theology is a prime example. The proponents of AGW fill the news media with scare mongering, "we are doomed" stroies and that is how the majority actually get their 'knowledge'. However, get onto the web, where there are thousands of independent researchers and bloggers and it's a different story. AGW is just about a fallen religion on the Internet and in some mainstream media outlets, but the majority still think it fashionable to print/broadcast the scary stuff.

The activists, the zealots, even if they are way out of mainstream thinking on these issues, manage to get their ten minutes of headlines and for some reason, they gain credibility through it. Environmentalists, animal liberationists, are all expert at 'using' the media to further their own agendas.


#16

[quote="Joseph_L_Varga, post:12, topic:188763"]
:thumbsup:

Do you have the crazies in power in Australia, too?

[/quote]

In today's r*Australian Newspape* ajournalist comments on and contrasts the left wing liberal philosophies of both Australia and England.

*She writes *-

With the defeat of communism, many conservatives really believed this was the "end of history". Since everyone embraced the free market, they thought there was no longer anything to defend.

They couldn't have been more wrong. The battleground had simply moved from economics to culture, with an onslaught against normative moral values, national identity and Western civilisation itself. But British Conservatives don't grasp that a culture war is being waged for the soul and future of the West.

The writer, Melanie Phillips, tells us that the conservative side of politics has gone too far in embracing the liberal philosophies which are in fact undermining our social structures and that the problem is common to both Australia and Great Britain. Obviously, the problem exists in the United States as well.

Conservatives, she tells us, have gone a long way toward adopting philosophies that

support gay adoption and all-female political short lists, are nervous about discussing mass immigration or egalitarianism, and are all but silent about Islamism and the Orwellian moral inversion that tries to criminalise as "Islamophobia" the legitimate concerns about radical Islam.

Melanie Phillips is a regular contributor to The Spectator Online. In fact, today's Australian article is re-published there. She is one of a few journalists who can see, and is willing to write about, the retreat of the west as it gives credence to beliefs and values which are antithetical to our Judeo-Western traditions. She tells us that Europe is under assault because it will not stand up to those opposing values. In instituting non-discrimination legislation and allowing unfettered immigration, the west is undermining the very values which made the west attractive to immigrants in the first place. Not withstanding this aspect of the cultural decline, the West now entertains a questioning of its own morality by so called 'intellectual elites' of the type Obama has in the White House and of the type Australia has spawned in Philosopher Peter Singer. The latter desribes the Bible as myth and from that moment on he can effectively begin to re-write our moral code. He is succeeding, because his Utilitarian arguments underpin the new morality of animal rights and animal liberation. He is regarded as the 'Father' of animal liberation by many of his followers. Singer is on record as writing that sex between humans and animals is of no moral consequence, just so long as the animals are not harmed. That is the type of Professor of Philosophy which one of America's most famous Universities, Princeton, has appointed as head of its Ethics department.

As Melanie Phillips tells us -

The great battles today are not between left and right. They are between morality and nihilism, truth and lies, justice and injustice, freedom and totalitarianism, and Judeo-Christian values and the would-be destroyers of the West both within and without.

It's time we heeded her warnings.


#17

[quote="John21652, post:16, topic:188763"]
The great battles today are not between left and right. They are between morality and nihilism, truth and lies, justice and injustice, freedom and totalitarianism, and Judeo-Christian values and the would-be destroyers of the West both within and without.

[/quote]

This I'd like to see more of. For some reason many christians are occupied with placing themselves to the left or to the right. But we believe in truth and beauty and love and therefor a center. If the world moves to the left of center that does not make the center right-wing. It is not a relative.

Perhaps we will live to see the fall of the west. It would not be the fall of truth but very terrible all the same. And I would love to see it saved.

Does anyone have any concrete examples of how they fight?


#18

[quote="John21652, post:16, topic:188763"]
Singer is on record as writing that sex between humans and animals is of no moral consequence, just so long as the animals are not harmed. That is the type of Professor of Philosophy which one of America's most famous Universities, Princeton, has appointed as head of its Ethics department.

[/quote]

LOL! As far as sex between Professor Singer and the animals - I would legally forbid it. You see, we need to protect the animals. :D

Other than that, since Professor Singer is currently here in the USA, I think President Obama should appoint him to his cabinet. Princeton University, in turn, should invite a kangaroo from Australia, as new head of its Ethics Department, to replace Professor Singer! :p

Thanks for the info and article! That observation that after the fall of Communism in Europe, the frontline shifted from the economic to the cultural war, corresponds exactly to what I experienced but had difficulty explaining it. I grew up in Communist Eastern Europe (Romania), and the official ethical stance of Communist countries at that time was less perverted than the direction we are headed in now. Homosexuality and pre-marital sex, for example, were condemned during the Soviet bloc era. Abortion was more tricky - my country (Romania) legally forbade it, but not because of respect for the sanctity of life, rather because the leader wanted to grow the human population of his country, much like an Australian farmer might choose to increase the size of his sheepherd. But China has a policy of forced abortions, because they currently want a smaller "herd of people". What I see today in the "West", i.e. in the free world that was Capitalist and won the economic competition against the Communist countries, is this culture war and strong push towards a new kind of morality which in certain respects is more depraved than what I experienced in the old communist days, or depraved in new ways (elements of New Age and the gay agenda). I guess it's like the evolution of a car model or computer operating system over the years - some aspects become more full-fledged and mature, and new elements may be added. I'm afraid this "new and enhanced" godless agenda has the potential to bring us enhanced, and previously unseen types of horrors as compared to Brown (Nazi) and Red (Communist) Hells of the past - is this going to be the Green Hell? I would much rather fight it now and stop it now before it swallows up our world. I don't really want to experience the New Hell - maybe I'm too old and lack curiosity! :rolleyes: :D

Wait - is this more like the time of ancient Israel? They had idols, they killed their children as sacrifice to their Moloch and Baal idol-gods, and they also worshipped at times the frogs, reptiles, birds, etc. They worshipped the creatures instead of the Creator - kind of like animal rights Prof Peter Singer, Cass Sunstein, and Nobel prize laureate for hot air Al Gore! :p Maybe our modern kooks are not really that innovative, after all! :D


#19

Oh gosh, and if Islam will conquer Europe once again, this time without firing a shot, it will be because they are less rotten than we have become. :( They are not overwhelmed by the Culture of Death like we are. They have their jihad and terrorist martyrs, but not the attack on the family. No abortion, artificial birth control, no gay agenda. In a way, we will take our just punishment from God, as a culture, if we succumb to them...


#20

Here's another trophy specimen, named John Holdren, currently working as Science Czar in the Cabinet of the President of the USA, Barack Obama.

The guy believes that the Government has the right, under the Constitution, to force women to abort their babies, and to sterilize people against their will. :banghead:

This is not simply some crazy scientist somewhere at a university - although that would already be bad enough in itself, and John Holdren apparently wrote university textbooks and was even the President of the AAAS (American Association for the Advancement of Science) recently, and managed to poison the minds and souls of the youth worldwide for some 40 years already. But now, we are not talking simply academics. Now, we are talking Government. And we are not talking about the governments of China or North Korea, either. We are talking about the current Government of the USA. :eek: :mad: :(

wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=110720


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