Where would this kind of person go when s/he dies?


#1

Hypothetical situation:

a person is a cradle Catholic, serves as an altar boy, etc.

He marries but is abusive and neglecting of his wife and children. He does everything he can to further his position in life, accumulating massive sums of $… He won’t let his wife leave, even though she is miserable because, well, he is Catholic and doesn’t believe in divorce. He ditches friends who helped him be successful… and generally does what he wants, what seems to be most expedient to him, regardless of consequences, especially those consequences affecting relationships… He lies on a regular basis, etc… When he dies, he leaves nothing much to anyone… but, in an attempt to earn God’s favor, leaves $ to the Church…

Do you think this kind of person

  1. should have a funeral Mass

  2. be admitted into Heaven - with or without Purgatory?

(Yes, i know, we cannot judge… I am just asking for an opinion… )


#2

I think he should have a funeral mass but I think the only place he’s going is down…It doesn’t sound like he was a true believer.


#3

Ok let me start out this way, I am on the admission board for our local Knights of Columbus council and our overridding question in the interview for any new member is are they a “practical catholic” that is a practicing catholic in good standing with the church. On the surface this person appears to be one but, I would not want him in my council since he abuses his wife is rotten to friends, greedy etc.
As a baptised Catholic he has a right to a funeral mass if a priest will say one for him. One might question whether it’ll do him any good since we as catholics don’t subscribe to a once saved always saved concept. Just because he’s catholic even a so-called practicing one doesn’t guarantee heaven for any of us.
Unless this guy made a good confession at the end and the donation of goods is a TRUE act of repentence and not one motivated by fear, he actually has a good chance of going to hell and might not make purgatory anyway. God really isn’t like the mafia were you can just buy Him off with money. The church might still pray for him in greatfulness for his gift. But God might have other ideas about him. However, leaving nothing for his wife and family in order to buy God off is sinful. The best i would really hope for this guy is purgatory and potentially a really rough “long” one. It is good that he went to church and was a catholic and all that but, wasn’t much of an example of it was he? Our judgement is after all based on the light we had in this life so being catholic would actually be in his disfavor not his favor


#4

He should receive a funeral Mass as we can not just assume that he is damned.


#5

It still seems like he may not have sincerely repented. The money was given AFTER his death, if he truly repented the money might have been given before. It’s not for me to say though.

He marries but is abusive and neglecting of his wife and children.

I believe if a person truly repents, and his seeks God’s forgiveness with his heart then he would be allowed in. If he didn’t really wish to reconcile and he just arranged for the money to be given after his death in hopes he would look more favorable in the eyes of God, then he will not be allowed in.


#6

You were right with “we shouldn’t judge.” The only thing this kind of discussion does is to stir up indignation and pride. Let’s just entrust sinners and the dead to the mercy of God.

Betsy


#7

I wanted to edit my post after reading this, appears the option is locked out.


#8

Quoted for Truth.


#9

We were asked our opinion which I give without pride or malice.OK?
I did know somebody like this and what made things worse was I knew his wife and really think she deserved better than him. In their case however she would not have given him a divorce even if he’d asked despite the rotten behavior he displayed towards her. He was working over at the mall chapel (our diocese has a chapel at a local shopping mall run by the Capuchins) and brought his wife to mass there. The secular franciscan group of which she and i were members used to meet after mass to say the rosary and the divine office together once a week. After mass his shift ended and he went home. Since she was a senior lady she no longer drove. When it came time for her to go home she called for a ride and he told her no he was watching a game and had no intention to go get her. One of the friars ended up taking her home.:frowning: If this gentleman had wanted to be a knight I would have said that I could not give him a recommendation. By the way when this guy died I was very hard pressed to pray for him and fortunately was unable to attend his funeral. If he gets into heaven it will be a miracle of grace since with God all things are possible but bying God off and neglecting his family at the end doesn’t really help his chances. In the end God is his judge (his name was daniel by the way meaning God is my judge in Hebrew ironic eh?) and he will determine his final fate.


#10

The guy in the scenario sounds like the ideal candidate to be sent down below. He is the antithesis of what a Catholic or Christian or what even a decent human being should be.

BUT I would hope that the mercy of God would extend even to folks like him, because I see a lot of what he does in many folks that I know and care about, and even a little in myself.

My thinking is IF a guy like that can get to Heaven, then my chances are pretty good.

This guys seems pretty mean spirited, selfish and in general a fairly miserable excuse for a human being. However it does not say he does anything truly evil. He did not kill anyone, did not rob from the poor, (at least it doesn’t say that) didn’t rape plunder or pillage. He didn’t even commit adultery (as far as I can tell). He didn’t sell drugs to kids, run an extortion or crime ring. He made his wife miserable, but my wife and I’m sure a lot of other wives will say that they are pretty miserable too (depends on what day of the week we are talking about :p).

I know it’s setting the standard pretty darn low. But it allows everyone I know, to at least make it to Purgatory.

Let him have his mass, and a couple thousand years in Purgatory.


#11

the discussion reveals attitudes about such things as Once Saved Always Saved… etc…


#12

What is the point of this discussion?


#13

thanks for the opinion (I think some people might be too “judgmental” themselves, in saying or implying that others are judgmental…)

Anyway… there is a psg in the Bible about how it is a serious thing not to take care of one’s own family members… I think it might be in Prov…

I think that if he repented, whole-heartedly, he would go to Purg…

If he didn’t, well, i don’t see how he could have because actions speak louder than words… (You will know them by their fruits)…


#14

Jesus said tht the way to Heaven is “narrow and there are few who find it”…

Mt 7:13, 20… St Luke 13;24… etc…

God is merciful to those who fear Him…

and if you KNOW anything about God you will fear Him…


#15

Relying on mercy of God has nothing to do with OSAS. One of your responses and the poster’s response are quite the same thing - relying on God’s mercy and the person also needs to repent.


#16

i like your answer… because, for one thing, you say “doesn’t sound like”…

some would accuse you of judging but i wouldn’t…

(don’t those poeple who scream JUDGING!!! JUDGING!! all the time get on your last nerve??? ) :smiley:


#17

What if 1/2 second before he dies, he repents? :wink: Did you have this in mind?


#18

there is something in Scripture about the law of restitution, which, of course, supports the concept of Purgatory. I think it basically says that if you do someone wrong, you have to restore what you took (etc) plus 20%…

Repentance is just the beginning of the purging process/getting ready for Heaven… or i should sya that true repentance involves making restitution… which can be done in numerous ways… often depends on the individual situation…

in any case Jesus said it is NOT easy to get into Heaven… I don’t know why this quote of His is SO neglected / ignored… Well, yes, i do know why… it is because of the world we live in 0 Everything is supposed to be easy and warm and fuzzy all the time… no one wants to hear this “negative” stuff (Purgatory/Hell… chastisement…) so no one speaks of it… even priests & ministers…

*** actually, now i think about it… i give the Protestant pastors some credit** here… because they WILL mention it far more often than any Catholic priest…*

it seems a lot of priests nowadays (many of the ones i know)… are just into making everyone feel good about themselves… no talk of Hell… no talk of the sacrifices we have to make to get into Heaven… It SO annoys me… it’s ***like they care more abaout popularity than people getting into Heaven… ***They will have to give an account for that when they die… (and YEs, i do pray for them…).


#19

Prove it. Don’t say “it seems”. Some of your posts say negatively about priests without providing real sources. It won’t help.


#20

you want me to name names?

don’t think so…


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