Where's King David?


#1

Fundamentalist J. Vernon McGee’s “Bible Bus” is on the radio during my morning commute. I enjoy listening to him, as I find him pretty solid on much of what he teaches, despite the obvious non-Catholic SS/SF POV.

But today, I nearly drove off the George Washington Bridge when he quoted Acts 2:34 “David did not ascend into the heavens” and drew the conclusion that King David and the Old Testament Saints will be “raised to live on this earth one day.”.

OK: We know David did not ascend into the heavens, but has anybody (other than maybe a JW) ever heard anything about the OT Saints being raised to live on this earth?


#2

First, I am glad you did not drive off the bridge!
Second, I have never heard this before except as you say with the JW’s who even bought a fancy place and a fancy car with hopes this kind of fantasy would materialize.
I wonder if he would respond to an invitation to come here and explain it to us in detail…


#3

Could it be possible that David is at the right hand of the Lord? This is only personal insight and I don’t know if it is sound. thanks, Tim


#4

I like that! King David in Malibu, driving a Lexus convertible!

Shucks! I always thought he was Headmaster of the harp school for the heavenly choirs!


#5

I can provide some insight on this. The truth is that david probably already came out on this earth and is now in heaven. OT saints went to Paradise, which is in the center of the earth. When jesus died saints walked around. What happened was he freed them from death, bringing salvation by his blood. They walked around for the entire time jesus was resurected on earth, and then they raised into the air when he did. That is what happened to david.

P.S. jesus is at the right hand of god, not David.


#6

Thank you for this response. Is this an official teaching of any particular denomination? I grew up Protestant and have many Protestant/fundamentalist friends, but I have never heard that the saints “walked around for the entire time Jesus was resurrected on earth.”

This is fascinating. – Learn something every day.


#7

This is not an official teaching of a denomination that i know of. I dont go by denominations, i go by what the bible shows to be true. I didnt hear about this theory until just a few years ago, but i read into it and it appears to hold up. Take a look at Mathew 27:52-53. Now this may not be all of them, but it would fit. As soon as Jesus died our sins were payed for. They had fallen asleep in hope of him and were instantly redeemed. They would no longer be under the curse of death. But without Jesus ascending to heaven they probably wouldnt have either. They might, but it seems more likely they would have been on earth til he took them up. Just seems most likely to me, havent heard a better explanation. If you have one please share it.


#8

I really appreciate your sharing your reflections on this. One question that arises regarding this scenario is that if Abraham, David, and Jeremiah had shown up for tea with the Apostles, it might have been mentioned in the Resurrection appearance narratives.

That Jesus released the “souls in prison” is a consistent teaching of the Church; The Catechism refers to the “holy souls” and says “In his human soul united to his divine person, the dead Christ went down to the realm of the dead. He opened heaven’s gates for the just who had gone before him.”

In Acts 2:34, Peter says “David did notascend into the heavens.” So that would indicate that if heaven was opened for the holy souls, but they (presumably along with David) “did not ascend” as the Lord did. Certainly McGee did not suggest that The OT Saints ever were “walking around.” He seemed to understand that their souls are still waiting for the Resurrection, but not in Heaven – ?because they were not Christian?

I admit that I have not raided the Scriptures on this sjince the whole business of the OT saints being resurrected to live on earth (presumably at the general Resurrection?) is something I never heard of in any venue, Protestant, Catholic or cultic before 6:15 a.m. today.

So, when the souls that came out of their graves (mind you: in this speech, Peter is pointing at David’s grave and reminding everybody that he is still in there), you are saying they hung around until the Ascension? Hmm. Again, I would think the ascension passages would mention that Jesus took these blokes with him.

Fascinating.


#9

Fundamentalist J. Vernon McGee’s… quoted Acts 2:34 “David did not ascend into the heavens” and drew the conclusion that King David and the Old Testament Saints will be “raised to live on this earth one day.”.

OK: We know David did not ascend into the heavens, but has anybody (other than maybe a JW) ever heard anything about the OT Saints being raised to live on this earth?

It always helps to have the context of any verse before attempting to interpret it.

Acts 2:
[30] Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants upon his throne,
[31] he foresaw and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.
[32] This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses.
[33] Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this which you see and hear.
[34] For David did not ascend into the heavens; but he himself says, `The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand,
[35] till I make thy enemies a stool for thy feet.’
[36] Let all the house of Israel therefore know assuredly that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified."

This passage isn’t about the dead ascending into heaven nor is it about redemption of OT sinners nor is it about the resurrection of anyone-----except Christ.

Peter is telling the crowd that Christ fulfilled David’s prophecy. It says nothing whatsoever about David’s final destination. Peter is only saying that David could not have been talking about himself in the verse Peter cited because David was not resurrected nor did he ascend into heaven AS JESUS DID. That’s it. Nothing more.

As to any OT prophets coming back to life to preach in the end times, most Protestants who hold to this idea do not believe one of the two will be David, based on the strength of this verse from Acts. They believe it will be Elijah and Enoch, who were both assumed into heaven. The teaching is that since they never died, they will be brought back to earth, live on the earth, preach to the lost of the end times, and then be martyred. The latter part about their being brought back to preach during the end times is not Catholic teaching.


#10

Actually, McGee emphasized strongly that Peter was absolutely talking about Jesus and nobody else. He just dropped in that statement that the OT Prophets would never go to heaven.

As to any OT prophets coming back to life to preach in the end times, most Protestants who hold to this idea do not believe one of the two will be David, based on the strength of this verse from Acts. They believe it will be Elijah and Enoch, who were both assumed into heaven. The teaching is that since they never died, they will be brought back to earth, live on the earth, preach to the lost of the end times, and then be martyred. This is not Catholic teaching.

Again, I think this is something other than what he was talking about. My head is still spinning.


#11

Jesus is Lord. So Jesus couldn’t be at Jesus right hand could He? I know that Jesus is at the right hand of the Father. I’m pretty sure some mother asked about hers sons about being at the Lord’s right hand. Remember first is the last, last will be first. So my question still stands. Tim


#12

Well, it doesn’t mention David’s ultimate fate, either. He’s putting his own spin on this verse–one that stretches incredulity to its limits. David is celebrated as both a prophet and a saint in the Church, so we know he is in heaven.

Again, I think this is something other than what he was talking about. My head is still spinning.

Yes, I was responding to speculations as to which two OT saints some Protestants believe will have a “second coming”. And David is definitely not one of the two. Sorry for the confusion. :blush:

It’s no wonder your head is spinning when you hear such twaddle. How I wish people weren’t allowed to voice such wild ideas as if Holy Writ in any way supports them. I mean, where do they get the idea that they have the right to make up such things based on their own reading of Scripture? :banghead: Not from the Bible and certainly not from the Church that produced the NT in the first place. It just bothers me, that’s all. Rant over!


#13

Of whom do you ask this question? And connect the dots for me because I don’t see the trail from this to the Old Testament prophets not entering Heaven, which was McGee’s assertion.


#14

Specops777 said

P.S. jesus is at the right hand of god, not David


#15

Ah. Thanks.


#16

Your welcome, Tim


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