Which Five And Eight?

Hello everyone.

I caught the tale end of a nice talk about Genesis but I walked in after the start and didn’t catch it all. The Priest said that there were a number of sins committed by Adam and Eve in the Garden at the Fall and the numbers he gave were 5 for Eve and 8 for Adam and that Biblical scholars know all about this. Like I said I only got the tail end of the talk, but I would like to know what exactly are the five and eight? I’ve looked through the books on my shelf and I’m afraid if the answer is contained in them, I’m at a loss for exactly where. So, my question is this: does anyone here at CAF know exactly what are the specific five and eight sins of our first parents and something about them? I guess those either in Seminary or newly out of it would probably be my best bet for an answer. I was gonna ask the Deacon we have after Mass today, but I missed him. So, any help finding the answer would be nice.

Glenda

:popcorn:

I’ve never heard this - - - but waiting to hear what others say…

Peace
James

I’ve never seen an actual list. Of course, that doesn’t mean that no one has ever written one. I’ve just not seen it.

There are other sins. I can mention a few, just to illustrate the point.

Eve changes God’s words. God said not to eat from the tree, but Eve changes what He said by adding “nor even touch it.” Compare Genesis 2:17 and 3:3

Adam tries to blame Eve for his own sin, and even blames God when he says “That woman, whom you put here, gave it to me.”

It’s not just eating the fruit that’s a sin (unto itself), but the vanity of wanting to be like God (or of wanting knowledge that God did not yet give them) is a sin that preceded the actual eating.

So sin is not predicated on the knowledge that something is a sin?

Can we rightly say that Adam and Eve had reached the “age of reason” if they did not yet possess the “Knowledge of Good and Evil”??
If we cannot say that had the necessary reason…can we charge them with the sin of “vanity” (they do not know this is evil)…or the sin of falsification (sin the words added were actually beneficial)

I agree that Adam’s trying to make excuses was sinful as was Eve’s initial bite of the fruit and subsequent enticing of Adam to eat.

Sins I see are

  1. Eve eating the fruit. (Disobedience)
  2. Eve enticing Adam to eat the Fruit.(Causing another to fall)
  3. They hid themselves from God. (failure to own up)
  4. Adam making excuses (failure to own up)

Peace
James

Well, there is supposed to be a formal listing and it is supposed to be taught in theology classes. The only one I caught in the talk was Eve’s curiosity and he explained how that it was a sin to wonder about things not proper to one’s state in life and few other things, but like I said, I only got a part of it. I’m going to continue my search and if and when I find the list, I’ll let you know.

Glenda

So far I’ve looked into St. Thomas (to me the most logical place to find it) and I’ve found several sins attributed to each, Adam and Eve, but no formal list of 5 and 8. So far I’ve found vanity, pride, disobedience and lying. I’m gonna keep digging till I get this. I’m hoping someone here will help. I know that the person with this knowledge of the list will know* exactly what I mean *when he reads this and will help as in “Yeah I remember the day we got that in class<” and will look in his notes for it. In the talk it was presented as if all theology students get taught this, but I don’t know. Never went to Seminary myself.

So, if there are any recent grads from Seminary out there or any burning up the text books HELP!

Glenda

I did not understand its mean.

Is it possible the priest meant #5 and #8. As in the commandments?

Here is a scenario:

She was told she would surely die. She ate anyway and gave some to Adam thereby killing not only herself, but him as well.

and 8. She lied. Or at least did not tell the truth.

That is an interesting point about her changing God’s words. But we don’t, know she did. Perhaps Adam changed them when he told her. But either way she was not around to hear the words as she was created after the command to not eat of the fruit.

This could be a good lesson for those who think the Church has no authority to dictate “rules” Eve did not hear God directly but was relayed the message to. Then she was “tricked” with the devil saying “Did God REALLY say that?” Perhaps that was enough doubt to cause her to sin.

I also would like to point out that Adam and Eve did not really know about sin, yet are still held completely culpable for it. Many people today seem to think that if they don’t know it is a sin then they cannot be held accountable.

See the many threads on ABC or masturbation. :shrug: It turns out that not only did God hold them responsible for something that they were lied to and tricked into but he also punished them so severely that it affects all of us.

Regarding human activities in the Garden of Eden. From the position of Catholic doctrine, not speculation, there is one major (mortal if you wish to call it that) sin which is part of the Catholic Deposit of Faith and that is known as the Original Sin committed by Adam.

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