White House releases its count of civilian deaths in counterterrorism operations under Obama


#1

Strange how little outrage this generates compared with say, Trump’s comments on water boarding.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/white-house-releases-its-count-of-civilian-deaths-in-counterterrorism-operations-under-obama/2016/07/01/3196aa1e-3fa2-11e6-80bc-d06711fd2125_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_usdrones-150pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory


#2

Thats what I think, its crystal clear with our recent conflicts in Iraq execution, torture and civilian beatings have been rampant. The fact its admitted is noteworthy though I feel its also an attempt to minimize the issue on-going.

poynter.org/2014/fact-checking-the-war-comparisons-between-obama-and-bush/272471/

thebureauinvestigates.com/2016/07/01/obama-drone-casualty-numbers-fraction-recorded-bureau/

Remember also that drones do not account for actual conflicts such as Iraq last week where civilian deaths are a fact of life.


#3

Reprieve is another organisation of human rights defenders which documents even higher numbers.

reprieve.org.uk/case-study/drone-strikes

The US has used drones to execute without trial some 4,700 people – that we know of. The ramifications of the escalating drone age are terrifying for us all – especially, of course, for those communities in Pakistan, Yemen, and Somalia who are terrorised daily by the presence of drones. The UK government and UK companies are actively complicit in this covert war – through intelligence sharing, the activities of US bases on British soil, and shared assets – without any transparency or accountability to you, the British public. Through investigation, litigation and education, Reprieve is working to bring about transparency and accountability on behalf of those affected by drone strikes.


#4

Or “hibby jobbies” :rolleyes:


#5

From the article:

The unintentional deaths, according to previously unreleased administration figures, came in a total of 473 CIA and military counterterrorism strikes between 2009 and the end of 2015. Those attacks, it said, killed between 2,372 and 2,581 “combatants” in countries where the United States is not at war.

Although it did not name the countries, they include Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and Libya.

Noncombatant civilian deaths (I find the term “collateral damage” to be abhorrent, except when applied to buildings or infrastructure) are always unfortunate, to say the least, and tragic to the families involved. However, look at the numbers: 473 strikes, 2372-2581 combatants killed, and only 64-116 noncombatants. For any wartime operation, those figures are actually quite remarkable. The figure that is missing is the number of local non-combatants killed by the enemy combatants, only because they didn’t practice religion in the way that the combatants wanted.

By contrast, I was watching a documentary on WWII in the Pacific last night, including coverage of the battle to take Manila. Casualty figures there were approximately 1,000 U.S. troops killed, approximately 7,000 Japanese troops killed, and approximately 1,000,000 Filipinos killed, mostly by the Japanese.

The writer’s inclusion of “combatants” in scare quotes, and the statement of "in countries where the United States is not at war are disingenuous. We may not be at war with the countries of Pakistan, Libya, Somalia, and Yemen, but we are at war with entities operating within those countries.


#6

Stuff like this happens during war.


#7

LOL…maybe some are, but I’m not buying the spin.

Your dislike of the President jades your common sense…the difference is civilian casualties were not intentional, and water boarding is.

If Obama was out of the equation you would be saying that the civilian deaths were just collateral damage that is worth the execution to get the bad guys.

Ya can’t have it both ways!:shrug:


#8

It’s not me that wants to have it both ways, it’s you. You’re willing to look the other way regarding civilian death because it’s your guy doing it. Then you affect outrage when the other guy advocates something less bad (yes, water boarding is less bad than a Hellfire missile strike). I understand that in war bad things are required, and accept it. It’s why I can support Democrat President Harry Truman’s decision to drop the atomic bombs on Japan as the least bad alternative, and Bush’s decision to use enhanced interrogation techniques, like water boarding.


#9

Drone strikes, in the age of Bush, created terrorists. Civilian deaths were completely unnacceptableand evidence of the anti-Islamic bias of the GOP.
In the age of Obama, drone strikes have become good things, and the death of 64 innocents are at least not as evil as any temporary discomfort that the three known terrorists had to endure in the age of Bush.

Droning is something that is ‘doing worse’ than waterboarding. I personally do not resent Obama for his fierceness. It is the hypocrisy of the left that is so grating.


#10

Double plus good. Is the ‘enhanced interrogation’ taking place in room 101?


#11

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