Who disciplines misbeheaving husbands in Islam?


#1

Questions for Muslims in this forum:

in the Koran, 4:34, there is a “methodology” by which allah instructs husbands on how to discipline wives, including beating them. Based on this, i am encouraged to ask you:

**who is going to discipline misbeheaving husbands?

how are misbeheaving husbands supposed to be disciplined?**

I have browsed the koran in search of an answer to this, but have not been succesful thus far.

Can anyone answer this question?

thanks


#2

When a husband and wife have problems members of each others families come together to help them. So, if the husband is not doing his duty, then the wife’s family will step in and and stand behind her.

wa salam


#3

[quote=fatuma]When a husband and wife have problems members of each others families come together to help them. So, if the husband is not doing his duty, then the wife’s family will step in and and stand behind her.

wa salam
[/quote]

thanks for the answer Fatuma. Unfortunately, I was expecting you to quote the Koran, not what you personally think must happen. The way I see it, allah is very careful and detailed when it comes to correcting misbehaving wives, but at the same time, misbehaving husbands basically get a free pass here.

So could you please answer me with Koran citations/verses and not with your personal opinion?

thanks


#4

If a husband isn’t fulfilling his many obligations to his wife/family than that is justification for a divorce, justice, or intervention.

And about the beating of the wife, it isnt like you can just go around beating up your wife without reason.

Please read this article, as it is not something that anyone considers moral, hitting your wife, so that you can really understand the islamic stance on the subject:

islamonline.net/askaboutislam/display.asp?hquestionID=9918


#5

[quote=Eetaq]If a husband isn’t fulfilling his many obligations to his wife/family than that is justification for a divorce, justice, or intervention.

And about the beating of the wife, it isnt like you can just go around beating up your wife without reason.

Please read this article, as it is not something that anyone considers moral, hitting your wife, so that you can really understand the islamic stance on the subject:

islamonline.net/askaboutislam/display.asp?hquestionID=9918
[/quote]

thanks for the answer Eetaq. Unfortunately, you and Fatuma did not read my question carefully, hence you are not answering it. I am going to post my answer to Fatuma’s response, so please read it with care this time:

**thanks for the answer Fatuma. Unfortunately, I was expecting you to quote the Koran, not what you personally think must happen. The way I see it, allah is very careful and detailed when it comes to correcting misbehaving wives, but at the same time, misbehaving husbands basically get a free pass here.

So could you please answer me with Koran citations/verses and not with your personal opinion?**

Regarding the morality of beating of wives as a “method” or “resource” to discipline them, from a christian point of view, that is highly questionable. But that’s not the main issue here, so I will leave that topic for a different thread. In the mean time, i am going to re-post my question once more so you or any other muslim can answer it clearly:

**thanks for the answer Fatuma. Unfortunately, I was expecting you to quote the Koran, not what you personally think must happen. The way I see it, allah is very careful and detailed when it comes to correcting misbehaving wives, but at the same time, misbehaving husbands basically get a free pass here. **

So could you please answer me with Koran citations/verses and not with your personal opinion?

thanks


#6

Hello Anderson. You quoted from chapter 4 verse 34 and the answer to your question is in chapter 4 verse 35.

4.35 If ye fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation: For Allah hath full knowledge, and is acquainted with all things.


#7

[quote=Anderson33]thanks for the answer Eetaq. Unfortunately, you and Fatuma did not read my question carefully, hence you are not answering it. I am going to post my answer to Fatuma’s response, so please read it with care this time:

**thanks for the answer Fatuma. Unfortunately, I was expecting you to quote the Koran, not what you personally think must happen. The way I see it, allah is very careful and detailed when it comes to correcting misbehaving wives, but at the same time, misbehaving husbands basically get a free pass here.

So could you please answer me with Koran citations/verses and not with your personal opinion?**

Regarding the morality of beating of wives as a “method” or “resource” to discipline them, from a christian point of view, that is highly questionable. But that’s not the main issue here, so I will leave that topic for a different thread. In the mean time, i am going to re-post my question once more so you or any other muslim can answer it clearly:

**thanks for the answer Fatuma. Unfortunately, I was expecting you to quote the Koran, not what you personally think must happen. The way I see it, allah is very careful and detailed when it comes to correcting misbehaving wives, but at the same time, misbehaving husbands basically get a free pass here. **

So could you please answer me with Koran citations/verses and not with your personal opinion?

thanks
[/quote]

hahaha sorry :frowning:


#8

[quote=Emad]Hello Anderson. You quoted from chapter 4 verse 34 and the answer to your question is in chapter 4 verse 35.

4.35 If ye fear a breach between them twain, appoint (two) arbiters, one from his family, and the other from hers; if they wish for peace, Allah will cause their reconciliation: For Allah hath full knowledge, and is acquainted with all things.
[/quote]

Thanks Eeqat, however, where does 4:35 say how you can dsicipline misbeheaving husbands?

Again, i pointed out to the fact that allah is very specific on how to discipline misbeheaving wives, but nothing of the sort is said about husbands.

so my unanswered question is again:

where can i find in the Koran a specific methodology by which misbeheaving husbands can be disciplined?

and please do not quote 4:35 again, as it is clear that it says nothing specifically about misbeheaving husbands

Thanks


#9

[quote=Anderson33]Thanks Eeqat, however, where does 4:35 say how you can dsicipline misbeheaving husbands?

Again, i pointed out to the fact that allah is very specific on how to discipline misbeheaving wives, but nothing of the sort is said about husbands.

so my unanswered question is again:

where can i find in the Koran a specific methodology by which misbeheaving husbands can be disciplined?

and please do not quote 4:35 again, as it is clear that it says nothing specifically about misbeheaving husbands

Thanks
[/quote]

First of all my name is Emad, not Eeqat. Verse 35 from chapter four is clear enough. In Islam a women is very precious. In most circumstances the man has the upper hand in the marriage. In general he has the money and strength. We do not leave our women on their own and tell them to go and “fight” their husbands by themselves. The men in her family will take care of it for her. Therefore the men from the womens family will come and stand up for her.


#10

[quote=Emad]First of all my name is Emad, not Eeqat. Verse 35 from chapter four is clear enough. In Islam a women is very precious. In most circumstances the man has the upper hand in the marriage. In general he has the money and strength. We do not leave our women on their own and tell them to go and “fight” their husbands by themselves. The men in her family will take care of it for her. Therefore the men from the womens family will come and stand up for her.
[/quote]

well, i see very clearly that a person by the name of Eeqat answered my post, hence my reply to Eeqat. Anywyays, you say verse 4:35 is clear enough. My i ask you clear enough about what?

4:34 clearly details the different degrees of punishment for misbeheaving wives, including beating. Before you answer me with the red-herring about wife-beating in islam, let me remind you that is not the main issue here.

so again, could you please clearly tell me the different degrees/stages of punishment that a misbeheaving husband can suffer so he can rectify his errant ways?

just as 4:34 implies that there are at least 3 degrees in the severity of punishment for a wife, so can you clearly show me the different degrees of punishment for an misbeheaving husband?

Thanks


#11

No there is no equivalent to 4:34 anywhere in the qur’an about men.

Basically there is no specifics about how a wife is going to punish her husband, however the advantage of this is that she can do many things. The husband is limited by these degrees stated in the qur’an, while the woman is open ended.

There are a few things that can be found throughout hadith, try and look there.


#12

Please forgive my limited knowlege of Islam, it appears that you have asked a question that cannot be answered.

If it has no specific answer, as it does for the punishment of the wife, could it mean that there is NO prescribed punishment for an errant husband? It appears the husband can beat his wife at will, but she has no prescribed recourse against him, short of getting family members to come to her aid. What if she has no family members available, or is cut off from them?


#13

[quote=cargopilot]Please forgive my limited knowlege of Islam, it appears that you have asked a question that cannot be answered.

If it has no specific answer, as it does for the punishment of the wife, could it mean that there is NO prescribed punishment for an errant husband? It appears the husband can beat his wife at will, but she has no prescribed recourse against him, short of getting family members to come to her aid. What if she has no family members available, or is cut off from them?
[/quote]

A husband can’t beat the wife by making marks on her, he can’t hit her face or anything like that. He can lightly tap her, nothing more. The prime example for a Muslim is the Prophet peace be upon him and he never beat his wives. Therefore a Muslim husband should follow his example and not do so either.

In the case of a woman, what is she to do? Can she beat her husband? It really won’t work in most cases. Here is how it works: They woman would complain to a judge and the judge would try to work things out. If it still doesn’t work wise a just relatives from the male and female side would come and try to work it out. If the women doesn’t have family or is distanced from them, the Islamic government takes their place and fight for her.


#14

[quote=cargopilot]Please forgive my limited knowlege of Islam, it appears that you have asked a question that cannot be answered.

If it has no specific answer, as it does for the punishment of the wife, could it mean that there is NO prescribed punishment for an errant husband? It appears the husband can beat his wife at will, but she has no prescribed recourse against him, short of getting family members to come to her aid. What if she has no family members available, or is cut off from them?
[/quote]

I will forgive your limited knowledge of Islam.

However I will only forgive so much, seeming as when you said: It appears the husband can beat his wife at will I am forced to remind you of the link I posted.

It is makrooh (HATED) for a man ever to delve down to the third level of punishment (hitting) and many say it is often better that, if the man is dissatisfied to the point of having to hit, he simply get a divorce.

There are a lot of rules about how you can hit, and please remember it is a hit, as in one, not a beating. I could list at least 10 hadiths about hitting in islam, not only of women, and all are restrictions.

And, like I said, the woman can do what she wants to the man to punish him.

If she has no family, she can go to the local Imam who will sorten things out. She can go to a family friend, she can go to the police, she can go anywhere she wants, she could leave if the situation justifies it. It is more open ended for the woman, whereas because men often mistreat their wives (all around the world) the men are restricted as to how they can discipline the women.


#15

[quote=Anderson33]well, i see very clearly that a person by the name of Eeqat answered my post, hence my reply to Eeqat. Anywyays, you say verse 4:35 is clear enough. My i ask you clear enough about what?

4:34 clearly details the different degrees of punishment for misbeheaving wives, including beating. Before you answer me with the red-herring about wife-beating in islam, let me remind you that is not the main issue here.

so again, could you please clearly tell me the different degrees/stages of punishment that a misbeheaving husband can suffer so he can rectify his errant ways?

just as 4:34 implies that there are at least 3 degrees in the severity of punishment for a wife, so can you clearly show me the different degrees of punishment for an misbeheaving husband?

Thanks
[/quote]

I am sorry. I thought you were talking to me because you quoted me and not Eeqat. What is your intention behind this question? Do you know the basics of Islam? I suggest you begin there. I believe I also answered your question in the post before this one.


#16

[quote=Emad]I am sorry. I thought you were talking to me because you quoted me and not Eeqat. What is your intention behind this question? Do you know the basics of Islam? I suggest you begin there. I believe I also answered your question in the post before this one.
[/quote]

OK LOOK PEOPLE ITS EETAQ NOT EEQAT GRRRRRR :banghead: :banghead:

THINK OF IT AS EAT A Q EET-A-Q GAHHHHHH GRRRROOOOWWWWLLLL


#17

[quote=Eetaq]OK LOOK PEOPLE ITS EETAQ NOT EEQAT GRRRRRR :banghead: :banghead:

THINK OF IT AS EAT A Q EET-A-Q GAHHHHHH GRRRROOOOWWWWLLLL
[/quote]

Sorry :o


#18

[quote=Eetaq]I will forgive your limited knowledge of Islam.

However I will only forgive so much, seeming as when you said: It appears the husband can beat his wife at will I am forced to remind you of the link I posted.

It is makrooh (HATED) for a man ever to delve down to the third level of punishment (hitting) and many say it is often better that, if the man is dissatisfied to the point of having to hit, he simply get a divorce.

There are a lot of rules about how you can hit, and please remember it is a hit, as in one, not a beating. I could list at least 10 hadiths about hitting in islam, not only of women, and all are restrictions.

And, like I said, the woman can do what she wants to the man to punish him.

If she has no family, she can go to the local Imam who will sorten things out. She can go to a family friend, she can go to the police, she can go anywhere she wants, she could leave if the situation justifies it. It is more open ended for the woman, whereas because men often mistreat their wives (all around the world) the men are restricted as to how they can discipline the women.
[/quote]

Thank you for forgiving my very limited knowlege of Islam.

What are the rules for how you can hit? Are they very clear, or are they open to interpretation by the husband?

What would happen if the woman went to the local Imam? For example, if the husband is very mean to her and hits her often for the smallest things, what can the Imam do? Could the husband prevent her from seeing the local Imam? Wouldn’t her going to the Imam make him more angry with her and cause him to beat her even more?


#19

[quote=Emad]A husband can’t beat the wife by making marks on her, he can’t hit her face or anything like that. He can lightly tap her, nothing more. The prime example for a Muslim is the Prophet peace be upon him and he never beat his wives. Therefore a Muslim husband should follow his example and not do so either.

In the case of a woman, what is she to do? Can she beat her husband? It really won’t work in most cases. Here is how it works: They woman would complain to a judge and the judge would try to work things out. If it still doesn’t work wise a just relatives from the male and female side would come and try to work it out. If the women doesn’t have family or is distanced from them, the Islamic government takes their place and fight for her.
[/quote]

Hi Emad;

you say that Muhhamad did not beat his wives, really?

sahid Muslim, 4 - 2127

When it was my turn for Allah’s Messenger to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi’. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'Aisha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?…

it clearly says your prophet hit Aisha.

Any comments?

So you are saying that beating does work with women, and not with men. Can you elaborate as to why?

also, you mention judges, goverments, etc. So i have to again, repeat the same question:

where in the Quoran is that methodology that you describe written?

Listen Emad. if it is not written there in the Koran, why don’t you just simply answer that’s the case?

If it is not written in the Quoran, simply say so. No need to give your personal opinions.

Thanks


#20

[quote=Emad]I am sorry. I thought you were talking to me because you quoted me and not Eeqat. What is your intention behind this question? Do you know the basics of Islam? I suggest you begin there. I believe I also answered your question in the post before this one.
[/quote]

the intention is very simple Emad:

I want to know why there is so much disparity regarding that particular subject

the Quoran is very specific as to how to discipline women, whereas with men is so vague or nonexistent, to say the least. You muslims claim that Islam means parity between husbands and wives. I beg to difer, and this is a very good point which i want to discuss in more detail.

Once you acknowledge this, then i will proceed with more questions.

Thanks


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