Who is the most important catholic saint after mary?


#1

Who is officially or unofficially the most important catholic saint after mary? Who is the most important male catholic saint?


#2

After Mary, Sts. Joseph and John the Baptist. There is some ambiguity as to which of the two is higher. St. Michael and all the Angels in their respective order of hierarchy are generally regarded as higher than any of the humans except Mary (and perhaps St. Joseph if he is in fact higher than John the Baptist)

Sts. Peter, Paul, John, and James the apostles are also very important.


#3

[quote=batteddy]After Mary, Sts. Joseph and John the Baptist. There is some ambiguity as to which of the two is higher. St. Michael and all the Angels in their respective order of hierarchy are generally regarded as higher than any of the humans except Mary (and perhaps St. Joseph if he is in fact higher than John the Baptist)

Sts. Peter, Paul, John, and James the apostles are also very important.
[/quote]

Right on. GodLover may not know why St. John the Baptist rates so high, though. It is because he, like Mary, was born without the stain of original sin on his soul. This was because the unborn Jesus filled him with grace from his mother’s womb. The reference is Luke 1:44, which is, like the whole of Scripture the witness to this truth, not the proof. (The Church doesn’t look upon the Bible as a proof-text of the Catholic faith but rather as one of the most important witnesses to the Catholic faith.)

It is also why the Catholic Church liturgically celebrates only 3 birthdays: Jesus’, Mary’s, and St. John the Baptist’s.


#4

I see, thx both of you. But still, which one among the two? Joseph or John?


#5

[quote=GodLover]I see, thx both of you. But still, which one among the two? Joseph or John?
[/quote]

The Church does not know which it is because God has not revealed that to us. Remember when the mother of James and John wanted Jesus to promise that her sons would sit on his left and on his right in his kingdom? And remember Jesus’ answer? He said that it was for God the Father to say who would sit on his left and on his right.

The Church believes that Jesus revealed one of those privileged persons by entrusting Mary to John’s care and calling her John’s, and so all followers of Jesus’, mother. We do not know who the other person is/will be, but most speculate that it is/will be Joseph. Others argue for St. John the Baptist, but it since Jesus did not reveal his Father’s will about the other person we can only speculate.


#6

Della, you say "…St. John the Baptist rates so high, though. It is because he, like Mary, was born without the stain of original sin on his soul."
I’ve been around for sixty years and that’s the first time I’ve ever heard of anyone other than Mary having been born without Original Sin.
Is there a reference that you can point me to, please, that can confirm that St John the Baptist was also so highly favoured ?
St John the Baptist died (was killed) and death is a consequence of Original Sin, whereas Mary was Assumed into heaven.
Thanks.


#7

[quote=maloner]Della, you say "…St. John the Baptist rates so high, though. It is because he, like Mary, was born without the stain of original sin on his soul."
I’ve been around for sixty years and that’s the first time I’ve ever heard of anyone other than Mary having been born without Original Sin.
Is there a reference that you can point me to, please, that can confirm that St John the Baptist was also so highly favoured ?
St John the Baptist died (was killed) and death is a consequence of Original Sin, whereas Mary was Assumed into heaven.
Thanks.
[/quote]

From the Catholic encyclopedia at newadvent.org.:

Now during the sixth month, the Annunciation had taken place, and, as Mary had heard from the angel the fact of her cousin’s conceiving, she went “with haste” to congratulate her. “And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant” – filled, like the mother, with the Holy Ghost – “leaped for joy in her womb”, as if to acknowledge the presence of his Lord. Then was accomplished the prophetic utterance of the angel that the child should “be filled with the Holy Ghost even from his mother’s womb”. Now as the presence of any sin whatever is incompatible with the indwelling of the Holy Ghost in the soul, it follows that at this moment John was cleansed from the stain of original sin.

This why we celebrate his birthday but no other saints besides Mary’s (thinking just of the saints) and Jesus’ (because he was the Son of God).

As to Mary’s Assumption, the Church has not said whether or not Mary died. All that is said is that at the end of her earthly life she was assumed into heaven. There are conflicting sources about where Mary lived out the last days of her earthly life as well as whether or not she died, to honor how her Son died for us or if she was assumed at her last breath before she would have actually expired.

As to death being the consequence of original sin, that is something even Jesus did not escape although he wasn’t paying the price of his own sins. St. John the Baptist’s nature was not changed by being in-filled with the Holy Spirit, only the stain of original sin had been removed, as it is for all who are baptized with the trinitarian baptism Jesus instituted. He still had a fallen nature and could desire to sin, whereas Mary’s nature was fully redeemed at the instant of her conception, so she had no inclination to sin.


#8

Mary was conceived without Original Sin, whereas John the Baptist was merely born without Original Sin (removed inutero. It’s a little different.
CARose


#9

[quote=GodLover]Who is officially or unofficially the most important catholic saint after mary? Who is the most important male catholic saint?
[/quote]

After Mary I would say it is the saint who inspires you to be closer to Christ. For me it’s St. Augustine as we have a similar life experience prior to conversion.

If you want to limit it to just males…that’s tough. I would say Michael the archangel; however, as angel he’s technically without gender. St. John would be my second choice.


#10

Maloner:

I think you may be confused. Just want to clarify, that Mary is special because she (among other things,) was conceived without original sin; John the Baptist was born without sin. There is a big difference. Mary never had original sin, but John the Baptist did. The difference between him and us is that it was removed while he was still in the womb.

Does that help??


#11

[quote=GodLover]Who is officially or unofficially the most important catholic saint after mary? Who is the most important male catholic saint?
[/quote]

In my book, St. Paul, Bld. (I think he is blessed, I know he is in the process) Fulton J. Sheen or St. Thomas Aquinas for the simple fact they were the intellectual “Kingpins” of the faith; Ya know the guy who had the knowledge (and the ablilty to use that knowledge) to put any heretic or Faithful that was out of line back where he needs to be (not to underscore people like Peter but, I admire Smarts) though from a church stand point it would be St. Peter.


#12

Our Church’s hall of fame hierarchy is stated at every Mass in the Eucharistic prayers. Just listen closely at Mass or read through any of the four yourself and look at the order they are listed off.
Here are excerpts from Eucharistic prayer I. (EPI)
We honor Mary, the ever-virgin mother of Jesus Christ our Lord and God. We honor Joseph, her husband, the apostles and martyrs Peter and Paul, … and all the saints.

EP II is somewhat less specific but the same order, and same with EPIII and IV.
Later on in EPI - in the fellowship of your apostles and martyrs, with John the Baptist, Stephen, …

Basically it’s Mary, those immediately surrounding Jesus, the apostles, the martyrs and the saints.

The martyrs are very high up there and you know when it’s the feast of a martyr because the priest will be wearing the red vestments. You more often see this during weekday masses.


#13

My wife Julie, aka “Marmee79” on the forum.

Alan


#14

[quote=AlanFromWichita]My wife Julie, aka “Marmee79” on the forum.

Alan
[/quote]

Do you mean saint, or martyr?? (just kidding!!!):smiley:


#15

[quote=GodLover]Who is officially or unofficially the most important catholic saint after mary? Who is the most important male catholic saint?
[/quote]

John the Baptist is given the most honor of any human other than Mary. He is the last and greatest of the prophets. He prepared Israel for the Lord. It has been taught in the past that he was cleansed in the womb like Mary(though not at conception). He was filled with the Holy Spirit even from his mothers womb[Luke1;15]. How many others are mentioned in “the confiteor”?

St. Joseph was also a great man, he was the husband of Mary. He protected Christ when they were in danger.


#16

[quote=Lost&Found]Do you mean saint, or martyr?? (just kidding!!!):smiley:
[/quote]

Both, and I appreciate the grin but I’m really Not Kidding. She has given everything for me, much more than I ever imagined anyone could. She is truly a “friend” in the John 15:13 definition of it, when it comes to this family and to me. I had no idea what “love” was until she showed me selflessness.

Professional counselors told her to dump me. Other professionals told her to sign papers to have me committed. She never let others get between us, and went to hell and back but has never given up on me. :thumbsup:

She has stayed with me almost 20 years now, and demonstrated she meant her vows about better or worse, sickness and health, richer and poorer.

[quote=John 15:13]No one has greater love than this, to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.
[/quote]

She did get the first laugh, in a way. Within minutes of the time we met, she made me “bleed” in a way. She was a phlebotomist at the Red Cross and I was donating blood, while getting paid time off from Boeing. She fell for my line about getting a new grand piano and offering her some Mozart or Bach.

Sorry to go on like this but this woman does things nobody would even want to hear about for her family, friends, and Church. :bowdown:

Alan


#17

what about St. Peter of "upon this Rock. . . " fame? after the Blessed Mother, St. Joseph, and St. John the Baptist, he surely ranks right up there with the greats, along with his successors. . .


#18

[quote=AlanFromWichita]Sorry to go on like this but this woman does things nobody would even want to hear about for her family, friends, and Church. :bowdown:

Alan
[/quote]

No one minds hearing about it because it is very beautiful.


#19

How about Moses and Abraham? OH! I never heard anyone say St. Moses or St. Abraham! Are they saints??? Thought I toss this out for comments!!


#20

[quote=mainelyned]How about Moses and Abraham? OH! I never heard anyone say St. Moses or St. Abraham! Are they saints??? Thought I toss this out for comments!!
[/quote]

Hey, that brings up a good point. Would Judaism be upset if we “claimed” Moses and Abraham as Catholics? Do they have to come from Christianity and specifically Catholicism, making them required to come after Jesus?


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