Who is the new Adam?


#1

Saint Joseph is the new Adam and to say anything else is to get away from the truth of the Gospel.

To say anything else leads to the culture of death.

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2CUSTO.HTM


#2

citation, source and logical arguement for this remarkable statement?

[quote=Beaver]Saint Joseph is the new Adam and to say anything else is to get away from the truth of the Gospel.

To say anything else leads to the culture of death.
[/quote]


#3

[quote=puzzleannie]citation, source and logical arguement for this remarkable statement?
[/quote]

What about John Paul the Greats exhortation “The Guardian of the Redeemer”


#4

Well, I must admit that’s a new claim to me. I have seen in many Catholic writings including from the church Fathers references to JESUS CHRIST as the new Adam, but not St. Joseph. Certainly St. Joseph is a major Christian figure, well worthy of veneration, a remarkable man and chosen by God to play a wonderful part in salvation history–but the new Adam? I must respectfully disagree with you there, as I go with Church teaching on Jesus being the new Adam–but this does not diminish my dulia for St. Joseph in the slightest, nor does it mean that I support in any way the culture of death.


#5

[quote=Tantum ergo]Well, I must admit that’s a new claim to me. I have seen in many Catholic writings including from the church Fathers references to JESUS CHRIST as the new Adam, but not St. Joseph. Certainly St. Joseph is a major Christian figure, well worthy of veneration, a remarkable man and chosen by God to play a wonderful part in salvation history–but the new Adam? I must respectfully disagree with you there, as I go with Church teaching on Jesus being the new Adam–but this does not diminish my dulia for St. Joseph in the slightest, nor does it mean that I support in any way the culture of death.
[/quote]

Oh! but you do support the culture of death, as long as you do not understand THIS exhortation. It is because of YOUR understanding we have a gay culture. It is also why Cain killed Abel. The fact is it is the reason for our sinfull nature.


#6

I have to go for now, got to deliver a bed to my son up North, take most of the day. Will be back this evening to pickup the discussion. Think through the logic, John Paul the Great new what he was talking about. Read the Exhortation.


#7

Is there a news link?


#8

[quote=Beaver]What about John Paul the Greats exhortation “The Guardian of the Redeemer”
[/quote]

What about it?


#9

[quote=Beaver]I have to go for now, got to deliver a bed to my son up North, take most of the day. Will be back this evening to pickup the discussion. Think through the logic, John Paul the Great new what he was talking about. Read the Exhortation.
[/quote]

No links. Thread closed.


PM me with a link to the article you are citing and I will consider reopening the thread.


Thanks.


Walt


#10

[quote=Ani Ibi]What about it?
[/quote]

The source for “Guardian of the Redeemer” is on the Vatican or EWTN Websites. Search for “REDEMPTORIS CUSTOS “. John Paul the Great referred to this exhortation in his Theology of the Body. When we take this exhortation back to the beginning we see that Adam was to guard the REAL PRESENSE. They lost the REAL PRESENSE, the pearl of great price, not each other. One does not usually fail guarding something unless they have loss it.

The church has lost site of the significance of the REAL PRESENSE and so have we. It pays to read the scriptures daily, you will come up with a better understanding of your faith and your culture.

LINK: ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2CUSTO.HTM


#11

okay the document you cite contains a beautiful teaching on the life of Joseph, husband of Mary, and his importance in the events surrounding the birth and mission of Christ the Redeemer. It further contains a beautiful teaching on the nature of marriage, drawing on the example of the marriage of Joseph and Mary. Nowhere does it call Joseph “the new Adam.” It makes an analogy between the union of Adam and Eve, and the union of Joseph and Mary, with respect to the importance of these unions in salvation history, but does not refer to Joseph as the “new Adam”.

You are reading something into the message that simply is not there.

Furthermore you are condemning us for not making your interpretation and application of this text, and I sure would like to know on what authority you do so.

You further claim that “the church” has lost sight of the real presense (sic). If you are referring to the Catholic Church and the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, you will have to prove to me that the Church has lost sight of or abandoned this doctrine. Perhaps individual Catholics may have done so, but for you to charge the Church with this is beyond proof and again a challenge to Church authority and teaching. By what authority do you make your claims?


#12

[quote=puzzleannie]okay the document you cite contains a beautiful teaching on the life of Joseph, husband of Mary, and his importance in the events surrounding the birth and mission of Christ the Redeemer. It further contains a beautiful teaching on the nature of marriage, drawing on the example of the marriage of Joseph and Mary. Nowhere does it call Joseph “the new Adam.” It makes an analogy between the union of Adam and Eve, and the union of Joseph and Mary, with respect to the importance of these unions in salvation history, but does not refer to Joseph as the “new Adam”.

You are reading something into the message that simply is not there.

Furthermore you are condemning us for not making your interpretation and application of this text, and I sure would like to know on what authority you do so.

You further claim that “the church” has lost sight of the real presense (sic). If you are referring to the Catholic Church and the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist, you will have to prove to me that the Church has lost sight of or abandoned this doctrine. Perhaps individual Catholics may have done so, but for you to charge the Church with this is beyond proof and again a challenge to Church authority and teaching. By what authority do you make your claims?
[/quote]

I am referring to the church as a body of believers and not in the authoritive sense. I understand the authority of the Catholic Church inwhich espound in favor of John Paul the Great. But I also know there is a great number who are disenters.


#13

[quote=puzzleannie]okay the document you cite contains a beautiful teaching on the life of Joseph, husband of Mary, and his importance in the events surrounding the birth and mission of Christ the Redeemer. It further contains a beautiful teaching on the nature of marriage, drawing on the example of the marriage of Joseph and Mary. Nowhere does it call Joseph “the new Adam.” It makes an analogy between the union of Adam and Eve, and the union of Joseph and Mary, with respect to the importance of these unions in salvation history, but does not refer to Joseph as the “new Adam”.

You are reading something into the message that simply is not there.
[/quote]

A functional marriage is defined in the garden before the fall. Notice that marriage is NOT between a man and a woman but there is the REAL PRESENSE. A dysfunctional marriage is what we observe after the fall and it is just between a man and a woman. We find the man and woman in argument as to which one of them is God. I ate of the fruit too.

This bickering requires a solution and ever solution man comes up with is SIN. Cain solution was the murder of his brother Abel. The solutions go on and on; drugs, same sex marriage, divorce, adultery just to name a few.

When the INCARNATION occurred again we have a functional marriage centered on the REAL PRESENSE. When we meditate on the fifth joyful mystery, we see the difference between the new Adam and Eve and the old. Saint Joseph and Mary sought out the REAL CENTER of their marriage for three days and Adam and Eve did not even try.

Most of us do not even try to center our marriages on the REAL PRESENSE, no we seek other remedies, the cultural and social solutions which bring a nation to its knees.

So it is that we see that Christ is the REAL PRESENCE and Saint Joseph is the new Adam. Which Adam and Eve are we going to imitate.


#14

[quote=Beaver]A So it is that we see that Christ is the REAL PRESENCE and Saint Joseph is the new Adam. Which Adam and Eve are we going to imitate.
[/quote]

maybe you see it, but I don’t see anything of the kind, and while we probably agree that modern marriages are in dire need of help and of making Christ a party to the marriage, this discussion does not seem to be going anywhere in furthering that goal. bye.


#15

** Rom 5:19****, For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous**

That one was Jesus Christ. Jesus is the new Adam by his obedience ----death on the cross.


#16

[quote=tom.wineman]** Rom 5:19****, For as by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous**

That one was Jesus Christ. Jesus is the new Adam by his obedience ----death on the cross.
[/quote]

Must be Jesus

for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. (1Cor 15:22-23)

Thus it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. But it is not the spiritual that is first, but the physical, and then the spiritual. The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. (1 Cor 15:45-47)


#17

[quote=Beaver]Saint Joseph is the new Adam and to say anything else is to get away from the truth of the Gospel.

To say anything else leads to the culture of death.

ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2CUSTO.HTM
[/quote]

Christ is the new Adam. Irenaeus, Justin and Tertulian all make the connection.


#18

[quote=steve99]Must be Jesus

for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ. (1Cor 15:22-23)

Thus it is written, “The first man, Adam, became a living being”; the last Adam became a life-giving spirit. But it is not the spiritual that is first, but the physical, and then the spiritual. The first man was from the earth, a man of dust; the second man is from heaven. (1 Cor 15:45-47)
[/quote]

I did not say Saint Joseph was the last Adam…Split hairs. The question is was the first Adam command to guard, that of the Redeemer or not. Was it Jesus who was walking in the garden or not. Is this text the exception or not.


#19

Couple of points…

“A functional marriage is defined in the garden before the fall. Notice that marriage is NOT between a man and a woman …”

If a marriage is not defined as between a man and a woman, what then is it? Here is what my bible says…

Gen 2:24-25
24 For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother, and be joined to his wife; and they shall become one flesh.
25 And the man and his wife were both naked and were not ashamed.

There is no other definition of a valid marriage that I have seen.

“We find the man and woman in argument as to which one of them is God.”

Maybe I am misreading this? Man and woman arguing about which one is God? Clarify this for me could you? Adam and Eve knew who God was, and it wasn’t them.

“The question is was the first Adam command to guard, that of the Redeemer or not. Was it Jesus who was walking in the garden or not.”

Technically it would have been the 2nd person of the trinity, or preincarnate Christ. Adam’s job was to protect the garden. Basically to protect Eve, which he failed to do. The last Adam succeeded in the garden where the first Adam failed. The second Eve succeeded where the first Eve failed.

If I have misrepresented your posts, I’m sorry. That is how I read them.


#20

Strangely when I think of someone protecting Mary I think of Jesus. No one protected Mary more than Jesus. Through the sacrifice of Jesus Mary recieved a special grace that kept her from ever falling. Like Adam Jesus had the chance to protect the new Eve. He did. Adam did not. Christ is the new Adam. Just like Adam was weak, Christ was strong.


DISCLAIMER: The views and opinions expressed in these forums do not necessarily reflect those of Catholic Answers. For official apologetics resources please visit www.catholic.com.