Who is the Prophet Mohammed?

Muhammad didn’t follow up history and facts , well in the story of the resurrection of jesus and crucifixion. Their isn’t after all even the slightest evidence that jesus even resurrected there is many doubts about the accounts. And I don’t even think from a muslims perspective that he was 100% crucified , it’s about evidence not about because Muhammad disagreed with a lot of things in christianity , therefore making him a false prophet.

My friend. Jesus’ Apostles died for the Faith. They wouldn’t have tolerated persecution and death if they did not know whether Jesus was Resurrected.

Amen.

MJ

I don’t know what to say everyone has their opinions and we all should respect it

Is this view in the Quran? Just asking… I don’t know. :slight_smile:

MJ

Actually, the Muslim historian Reza Aslan recently said, “the one thing we can be sure about Jesus is his crucifixion.”

Take a look at this wiki article which are usually very anti-Christian:

*Although there is disagreement about issues such as the calling of disciples, the agreement on crucifixion is very widespread, and most scholars in the third quest for the historical Jesus consider the crucifixion indisputable.[23][59][60][61] Eddy and Boyd state that it is now “firmly established” that there is non-Christian confirmation of the crucifixion of Jesus.[24]Bart Ehrman states that the crucifixion of Jesus on the orders of Pontius Pilate is the most certain element about him.[60]John Dominic Crossan states that the crucifixion of Jesus is as certain as any historical fact can be.[23]John P. Meier views the crucifixion of Jesus as historical fact and states that based on the criterion of embarrassment Christians would not have invented the painful death of their leader.[61] Meier states that a number of other criteria, e.g. the criterion of multiple attestation (i.e. confirmation by more than one source), the criterion of coherence (i.e. that it fits with other historical elements) and the criterion of rejection (i.e. that it is not disputed by ancient sources) help establish the crucifixion of Jesus as a historical event.[62]

Although scholars agree on the historicity of the crucifixion, they differ on the reason and context for it, e.g. both E. P. Sanders and Paula Fredriksen support the historicity of the crucifixion, but contend that Jesus did not foretell his own crucifixion, and that his prediction of the crucifixion is a Christian story.[63]Geza Vermes also views the crucifixion as a historical event but provides his own explanation and background for it.*

Also, check out these secular quotes by historians and major figures from the first century:

Tacitus states" Nero fastened the guilt . . . on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of . . . Pontius Pilatus, and a most mischievous superstition, thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judaea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome"

Here’s Josephus’s account from the 1st century: “About this time there lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he . . . wrought surprising feats. . . . He was the Christ. When Pilate . . .condemned him to be crucified, those who had . . . come to love him did not give up their affection for him. On the third day he appeared . . . restored to life. . . . And the tribe of Christians . . . has . . . not disappeared.”

Check this out from Mara Bar-Serapion written around 73ad:

What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise king? It was just after that their kingdom was abolished.

Scholars accept that this is from another non-Christian source affirming Christ’s death.

I’ll give the full quote as I love how it ends:

Mara Bar-Serapion
73 AD
“What else can we say, when the wise are forcibly dragged off by tyrants, their wisdom is captured by insults, and their minds are oppressed and without defense? What advantage did the Athenians gain from murdering Socrates? Famine and plague came upon them as a punishment for their crime. What advantage did the men of Samos gain from burning Pythagoras? In a moment their land was covered with sand. **What advantage did the Jews gain from executing their wise king? It was just after that their kingdom was abolished. **God justly avenged these three wise men: the Athenians died of hunger; the Samians were overwhelmed by the sea and the Jews, desolate and driven from their own kingdom, live in complete dispersion. But Socrates is not dead, because of Plato; neither is Pythagoras, because of the statue of Juno; nor is the wise king, because of the “new law” he laid down

There are a few things we can gain from this: First, this was written within the first century, secondly it affirms the execution of Jesus, third it speaks of the new law Christ has laid. And fourth of all, it speaks of the destruction of the Jewish temple as punishment for the death of their “wise king.”

It’s really amazing what we have.

dronald,

. This is a most beautiful quote. It speaks of the “appearance” of executing the reality by killing the man. The reality does not go away. Truth is reality. Truth does not die, nor can it be crucified.

.

Martin,
. It is also true that the followers of Muhammad (PBUH) died for their Faith. They, too, wouldn’t have tolerated persecution and death if they didn’t know that He was the Apostle of God.

. The greatest testimony anyone can make is that of ultimate sacrifice. When one’s “last words” are written with his very blood spilled upon the ground, what ink is purer than this as a final testimony to one’s Faith, whatever outward form it takes, which dispensation it occurs.

.

Not the slightest bit of evidence? Do you concede that women make poor witnesses in first century Rome and Jeruselum? That Jews considered women terrible witnesses. Why then do the Gospels write of women being the first to see the empty tomb and deliver the message of the angel that Christ has risen from the dead?

Ah. But if only Mohammed knew that Christians died for believing in the Resurrected
Crucified Christ, he would have become Christian

]

. The greatest testimony anyone can make is that of ultimate sacrifice. When one’s “last words” are written with his very blood spilled upon the ground, what ink is purer than this as a final testimony to one’s Faith, whatever outward form it takes, which dispensation it occurs.

.

Sorry but Jesus already taught about the Greatest Love… to give ones life for his friends.
MJ

Hi Martin, I’ve always been interested to know about these martyred souls. Did they die being asked to recant their Faith in Jesus, or were they asked to specifically recant their belief in a physical resurrection?

It all comes in one package. If Jesus was not resurrected there would be no need to believe in Jesus at all.

MJ

Not necessarily, if they were asked to recant their Faith in Jesus and become a Jew, that’s one thing.

Being asked to recant your belief in a physical resurrection while retaining your belief in Jesus as the Messiah is another thing

Are there any specific details to these martyrdoms?

When the Source of all the Prophets of God inspires Them with His Words to different audiences centuries apart, it is not surprising, is it? that He should reiterate some of the same important lessons of loyalty for the Cause of the One same God?

Baha’u’llah clearly states, for example in the Preamble to the Hidden Words just such a distillation and reminder to His new audience:

"He is the Glory of Glories!

. “This is that which hath descended from the realm of glory, uttered by the tongue of power and might, and revealed unto the Prophets of old. We have taken the inner essence thereof and clothed it in the garment of brevity, as a token of grace unto the righteous, that they may stand faithful unto the Covenant of God, may fulfill in their lives His trust, and in the realm of spirit obtain the gem of Divine virtue.”

. and in that same short Book, He addresses the Spirit of Sacrifice in every age:

  1. O SON OF BEING!

. “Seek a martyr’s death in My path, content with My pleasure and thankful for that which I ordain, that thou mayest repose with Me beneath the canopy of majesty behind the tabernacle of glory.”

. That the Wellspring of all the Words of God should affirm the laws of love and sacrifice to souls born centuries apart in lands distant should not be a surprise, but a confirmation of His guidance to “all” mankind.

. If one is bent upon viewing the Manifestations of God is in competition with each other, rather than complimentary, it goes against the Revelation of Their Divine Unity wherein:

“All the Prophets proclaim the same Faith”, which Baha’u’llah asserts while referring specifically to those Who are indeed “Prophets of God”, and not false prophets, all of whose words betray their ignorance.

.

I am only concerned about this thread. Thus whether Mohammed knew anything about early Christianity. A “prophet” such as him should be well versed about who Jesus was. Id like to know what he actually knew. Quranic verses preferable;)

Everything else about the Martyrdoms you can research yourself. Excuse me while rest early for early morning Mass. Thank you. :cool:

MJ

Ive really no time for this. Have to rest for morning Worship. :highprayer:

MJ:

Brother Martin,
If I may ask you for some prayers for me, I’m barely walking to day. compressions in mid and low back about done me in right now. Meds making me kind of wired tight, too.

I greatly enjoy your posts and well reasoned thoughts. some folks are so abrasive, but you are very courteous. thank you and God bless you and your family.

Very tired too. got to go rest. Hope for coherent conversation tomorrow or next day. always enjoy your insights.

God bless,
dale

Just trying to unsubsctibe to this thread ( link did not work in email, only way is to click unsubscribe after posting)

I watched this a few nights ago, and found it quite entertaining, as well as learned something from it. Its an hour and a half long, but I actually watched the entire thing. It reminded me of similar old Bible stories, especially of Moses.

youtube.com/watch?v=Nxul4scF924&list=LL1UFX7L38MWP8FgrOasqSBA&feature=mh_lolz

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