Who should we pray to? Mary or Jesus?


#1

I think it is wrong to pray to anyone other than Jesus. Isn’t there a clear statement that Jesus wishes us to come DIRECTLY to him in prayer, rather than to Mary as an intercessor?

                     Why can't a person just pray to Jesus. For example say: 

“Lord Jesus, forgive me today for my sins and help me not to do them in the future. Lord, help me with the burdens that trouble me and should I die today, receive me into your kingdom. Not that I am worthy of your kingdom, but that you said that if I trust in you, you would receive me and grant me eternal life. Hear my prayer dear Lord.Amen”

                      Why do we need Mary for anything in our prayers when  Jesus will fulfill all our needs? That is the question.

#2

These should answer your questions:

catholic.com/library/Praying_to_the_Saints.asp

[quote=Catholic Answers]The answer is: “Of course one should pray directly to Jesus!” But that does not mean it is not also a good thing to ask others to pray for one as well. Ultimately, the “go-directly-to-Jesus” objection boomerangs back on the one who makes it: Why should we ask any Christian, in heaven or on earth, to pray for us when we can ask Jesus directly? If the mere fact that we can go straight to Jesus proved that we should ask no Christian in heaven to pray for us then it would also prove that we should ask no Christian on earth to pray for us.

Praying for each other is simply part of what Christians do. As we saw, in 1 Timothy 2:1–4, Paul strongly encouraged Christians to intercede for many different things, and that passage is by no means unique in his writings. Elsewhere Paul directly asks others to pray for him (Rom. 15:30–32, Eph. 6:18–20, Col. 4:3, 1 Thess. 5:25, 2 Thess. 3:1), and he assured them that he was praying for them as well (2 Thess. 1:11). Most fundamentally, Jesus himself required us to pray for others, and not only for those who asked us to do so (Matt. 5:44).
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There’s quite a bit more on the link above, but that just gives a taste of it.


#3

I think it is wrong to pray to anyone other than Jesus. Isn’t there a clear statement that Jesus wishes us to come DIRECTLY to him in prayer, rather than to Mary as an intercessor?

Why can’t a person just pray to Jesus. For example say:

“Lord Jesus, forgive me today for my sins and help me not to do them in the future. Lord, help me with the burdens that trouble me and should I die today, receive me into your kingdom. Not that I am worthy of your kingdom, but that you said that if I trust in you, you would receive me and grant me eternal life. Hear my prayer dear Lord.Amen”

Why do we need Mary for anything in our prayers when Jesus will fulfill all our needs? That is the question.

Your question is the same old non-sense.

DO YOU ASK YOUR FELLOW CHRISTIAN TO PRAY FOR YOU? IF SO, THEN WHY ASK THEM TO PRAY FOR YOU? WHY GO DIRECTLY TO JESUS?

Pio


#4

[quote=gladtobe]I think it is wrong to pray to anyone other than Jesus. Isn’t there a clear statement that Jesus wishes us to come DIRECTLY to him in prayer, rather than to Mary as an intercessor?

Why can’t a person just pray to Jesus. For example say:

“Lord Jesus, forgive me today for my sins and help me not to do them in the future. Lord, help me with the burdens that trouble me and should I die today, receive me into your kingdom. Not that I am worthy of your kingdom, but that you said that if I trust in you, you would receive me and grant me eternal life. Hear my prayer dear Lord.Amen”

Why do we need Mary for anything in our prayers when Jesus will fulfill all our needs? That is the question.
[/quote]

Hello! I never pray to Mary…I ask her to Pray for me. You see, when people die in a state of Grace, as Mary certainly did, they are closer to God than we are for sure, with glorified bodies, and who better to pray for me! Would you ask a drug addicted bar hopper to pray for you, or would you ask one of the Deacons at your church? The Deacon of course…well why not go a step further and ask a Saint to pray for you…power in that stuff there is!


#5

[quote=gladtobe]I think it is wrong to pray to anyone other than Jesus. Isn’t there a clear statement that Jesus wishes us to come DIRECTLY to him in prayer, rather than to Mary as an intercessor?

                     Why can't a person just pray to Jesus. For example say: 

“Lord Jesus, forgive me today for my sins and help me not to do them in the future. Lord, help me with the burdens that trouble me and should I die today, receive me into your kingdom. Not that I am worthy of your kingdom, but that you said that if I trust in you, you would receive me and grant me eternal life. Hear my prayer dear Lord.Amen”

                      Why do we need Mary for anything in our prayers when  Jesus will fulfill all our needs? That is the question.

[/quote]

Who says we can’t do both?? Why create a false “either/or” dichotomy where one doesn’t exist? As noted above, why can’t we ask our friends here on earth to pray for us but not our friends in heaven? Prayer is not worship (which is due to God alone) but a form of petition, or asking (as in Old English usage). It is also not necromancy (forbidden in the Old Testament and in the Catechism) because there is no attempt to conjure up or converse directly with spirits.

Try to rid your mind of preconcieved notions and false dichotomies and you will have a greater understanding of what the Church really teaches. If you’re going to attack something, make sure you’re not attack the Church’s true teaching, not someone else’s anti-Catholic caricature.


#6

As a protestant one of the things I struggle with over Catholicism is the adoration towards Mary and other saints. Most Catholics come back for this question is why ask anyone to pray for you. I ask others to pray for me with hope that God will head the prayers of many. However, there is a difference between me asking my friend for advice and help in my Christian walk, and asking a person who has passed(other than Jesus) for help. I won’t make the mistake of saying that it is completely wrong and you shouldn’t do it, because I don’t want to get into this type of arguement again. That is my opinion of the issue.


#7

[quote=bjcros87]However, there is a difference between me asking my friend for advice and help in my Christian walk, and asking a person who has passed(other than Jesus) for help.
[/quote]

There is a big difference. The one who has passed away is “alive in Christ”. So you see bj, asking the saints to pray for you is even more beneficial than asking your friend to pray for you. :slight_smile:


#8

We are all “One Body” in Christ. Period. That doesn’t change when we die - in fact, we become even more a part of Christ’s Body, as we are perfected in righteousness. To say to a part of the body, “I don’t need you,” is a sin, and St. Paul tells us as much.

Like it or not, when you say “I don’t need the Saints”, you are saying that you don’t need that part of the Body of Christ.

RyanL


#9

[quote=RyanL]We are all “One Body” in Christ. Period. That doesn’t change when we die - in fact, we become even more a part of Christ’s Body, as we are perfected in righteousness. To say to a part of the body, “I don’t need you,” is a sin, and St. Paul tells us as much.

Like it or not, when you say “I don’t need the Saints”, you are saying that you don’t need that part of the Body of Christ.

RyanL
[/quote]

Beautiful…well put Brother


#10

[quote=Lillith]Beautiful…well put Brother
[/quote]

Lillith…

…don’t tell anyone, but I got that from Pat Madrid…I have to give credit where credit is due…

RyanL


#11

No where in scripture are we asked to consult the departed spirits of the dead, no matter where they may be. It is true that living Christians should pray for one another, but nowhere are we commanded in scripture to consult the departed spirit of Mary for assistance. Especially in the fact that Jesus said categorically, Come UNTO ME all ye that are heavy laden and I will give your souls rest." Jesus never implied that we should seek departed spirits to intercede to him. But rather we should come directly TO HIM. And if we are now able to come to God and Jesus directly, why would we need anyone else to intercede for us anyway?


#12

[quote=bjcros87]As a protestant one of the things I struggle with over Catholicism is the adoration towards Mary and other saints. Most Catholics come back for this question is why ask anyone to pray for you. I ask others to pray for me with hope that God will head the prayers of many. However, there is a difference between me asking my friend for advice and help in my Christian walk, and asking a person who has passed(other than Jesus) for help. I won’t make the mistake of saying that it is completely wrong and you shouldn’t do it, because I don’t want to get into this type of arguement again. That is my opinion of the issue.
[/quote]

Well… you are very much entitled to your own WRONG personal opinion !!!

Folks who “passed” are no different than folks who are living, because with God, he is the God of the living NOT of the dead.

Mary is the Queen of Heaven. She is the Mother of the King of the Universe. She is Queen of the Angels. Her Son is God Almighty. She is the Queen of Heaven. BUT we are basically nothing, sinners, mere peons in this cesspool of sin that we call earth.

Now IF you are a mere peasant with no clout what so ever, and you happened to know the Queen Mother of the King. Who do you think the King would listen to ??? you a mere nobody, or Mary who happens to be the Kings mother.

I would say that the odds of the King picking your voice or opinion over and above His own Mother’s are between slim and none.

I pray for Mary’s help because in the grand scheme of things, I’m a mere nobody. While Mary is the Queen Mother whose divine Son would grant any request.

You should notice that at the wedding feast at Cana, at Mary’s mere suggestion (she merely stated that they had no wine), Jesus performed His first public miracle. He objected that it was not yet time, BUT at her request he did so anyway. It didn’t sound like Jesus wanted to doing anything about it, but He did so for His Mother. That’s what I can influence !!!

Would he have done so if a perfect stranger like you or I had asked ???.. maybe… but for Mary, she knew He would refuse her nothing. A request coming for Mary will always be granted, something from you or I may not even be noticed. Given the possibilities, I think approaching Mary gives me the best chance of getting my request heard.

BUT IF you think you have more clout than Mary, then you are more than welcome to try.
wc


#13

[quote=gladtobe]No where in scripture are we asked to consult the departed spirits of the dead, no matter where they may be. It is true that living Christians should pray for one another, but nowhere are we commanded in scripture to consult the departed spirit of Mary for assistance. Especially in the fact that Jesus said categorically, Come UNTO ME all ye that are heavy laden and I will give your souls rest." Jesus never implied that we should seek departed spirits to intercede to him. But rather we should come directly TO HIM. And if we are now able to come to God and Jesus directly, why would we need anyone else to intercede for us anyway?
[/quote]

Let’s not start the “it’s not specifically called out in scripture” argument again, lest we talk about “imputed righteousness, alter calls, absolute assurance, Sinner’s Prayer, etc.”, and how they aren’t specifically called out in scripture. That argument cuts both ways, and is a silly method of theology. What is at question is whether it is compatible with/implicit in scripture and christian tradition. It is my assertion that it is. Again, this is not a refutation of the “One Body” argument I posted earlier, but rather a gut-dislike for something you’re not familiar with.

To examine: if CATHOLICS tried to consult Mary in a seance or with a Oiji board, they would be guilty of a MORTAL SIN! That is not the intention. The communication is only one way, unless God decides it should be otherwise. What you are trying to convince us of is that any contact between the living and the dead is a sin. This would pu you in a very precarious situation when describing the Transfiguration of Jesus, where Moses (who is clearly dead, but alive in Christ) is put in contact with the three head apostles. Uh oh, Jesus put living people in contact with the dead! In scripture!

Let us also look at Rev 5:8, where the elders bring the prayers of the ‘holy ones’ on earth to the throne of God. How, if you would be so kind as to explain, do the elders in heaven (Saints) have the prayers of the ‘holy ones’ (us, on earth) to give to God?

Oh, and in answer to your last question - why pray at all? Doesn’t God know the intentions of your heart before you ask? Why ask friends to pray for you?

RyanL


#14

Here’s my 2 cents worth - Jesus said that those who believe in him will never die, but will live forever; and certainly all will agree that among all the living, Mary believes in Jesus? Therefore she is not dead! I am fully confident that Mary is more alive than I am, and willing and able to pray for me, and I know her prayers are heard. So I hope that all my living friends will pray for me, and most of all, Mary.


#15

[quote=urquhart]Here’s my 2 cents worth - Jesus said that those who believe in him will never die, but will live forever; and certainly all will agree that among all the living, Mary believes in Jesus? Therefore she is not dead! I am fully confident that Mary is more alive than I am, and willing and able to pray for me, and I know her prayers are heard. So I hope that all my living friends will pray for me, and most of all, Mary.
[/quote]

Thanks urquhart. That is so true! :slight_smile:


#16

*If *there was an either or, Mary or Jesus, the answer is of course Jesus.

Since there is not an either or, The answer is both. Jesus should be prayed to as my Saviour and Lord alone. Mary should be asked to pray for us as my friend and mother, presenting her prayers before her Savior, Lord and son, Jesus.


#17

For those who may want to ask the Queen for help, this prayer (the Memore) is a favorite of mine (and I think of hers):

"Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who ever came for thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thine intercession, was left unaided. Inspired by this confidence I fly unto you, O Virgin of Virgins, my mother. To thee I come, before they I stand (kneel), sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, dispise not my petitions, but in they mercy, hear and answer them, Amen. "


#18

[quote=bjcros87]As a protestant one of the things I struggle with over Catholicism is the adoration towards Mary and other saints.
[/quote]

Catholics don’t adore Mary and the other saints, they are revered for thier holiness. Adoration is for God alone.


#19

[quote=gladtobe]No where in scripture are we asked to consult the departed spirits of the dead, no matter where they may be. It is true that living Christians should pray for one another, but nowhere are we commanded in scripture to consult the departed spirit of Mary for assistance. Especially in the fact that Jesus said categorically, Come UNTO ME all ye that are heavy laden and I will give your souls rest." Jesus never implied that we should seek departed spirits to intercede to him. But rather we should come directly TO HIM. And if we are now able to come to God and Jesus directly, why would we need anyone else to intercede for us anyway?
[/quote]

For you scripture only fans, you may note that scriptures ended some 1800 years ago… AND it does not contain many of the Christian practices and traditions… PLUS it says scriptures AND traditions are to be followed.

Jesus Himself says “Pray for one another”.

You talk about the " spirit of Mary" as if she is some sort of ghost, do you not know that ALL are alive in Christ. That the saints, Mary and all who have passed away are ALL alive and well.

PLUS the teachings of Christ’s Church has, for many centuries, recognized the saints and their continued influence and help. The traditions of the Church did NOT stop at the end of written scriptures, nor did they magically start again with the 1500s.


#20

[quote=gladtobe]I think it is wrong to pray to anyone other than Jesus. Isn’t there a clear statement that Jesus wishes us to come DIRECTLY to him in prayer, rather than to Mary as an intercessor?

Why can’t a person just pray to Jesus. For example say:

“Lord Jesus, forgive me today for my sins and help me not to do them in the future. Lord, help me with the burdens that trouble me and should I die today, receive me into your kingdom. Not that I am worthy of your kingdom, but that you said that if I trust in you, you would receive me and grant me eternal life. Hear my prayer dear Lord.Amen”

Why do we need Mary for anything in our prayers when Jesus will fulfill all our needs? That is the question.
[/quote]

Hopefully my comment won’t take this thread off topic, but I recall a discussion I had with a Mormon friend of mine about prayer. He criticized Christians who directed prayer to anyone other than God the Father because when Jesus gives the example of how we are to pray, He says, “Our Father, who art in heaven…”

Obviously I don’t agree with this sort of fundamentalist/literalist interpretation, but just offer it as food for thought…

In Jesus and Mary
Fiat


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