Who was almost sacrificed by Abraham, Isaac or Ishmael?

The “Jews” are the survivors of the old Kingdom of Judah, (Judah and Benjamin) which scattered into Babylon in 586BC.

The term has no meaning earlier in history than that.

Sarah and Isaac were Hebrews, but not Jews.

ICXC NIKA

"The original name for the people we now call Jews was Hebrews. The word “Hebrew” (in Hebrew, “Ivri”) is first used in the Torah to describe Abraham (Gen. 14:13). The word is apparently derived from the name Eber, one of Abraham’s ancestors. Another tradition teaches that the word comes from the word “eyver,” which means “the other side,” referring to the fact that Abraham came from the other side of the Euphrates, or referring to the fact Abraham was separated from the other nations morally and spiritually. "

It is common to call them Jews, maybe not correct, but in any case this is sort of a little quibbling point. The point is that Abraham was the father of all the people who are known as “JEWISH” today - not “HEBREWS”.

And the topic is why Ishmael was so disliked by the the writers of the Old Testament?

It was Isaac. God sent Ismail and Hagar away. The birth of Ismail represents lack of faith in God or trying to play God and the consequences of trying to play God. Abraham and Sarah didn’t trust God at His word and tried to figure how they would have descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky, they came up with a plan to use Hagar to birth their children but that wasn’t what God told them was going to happen. Isaac is also an Old Testament type for Jesus. Abraham would have been over a 100 and Isaac would have been a teenager hence why the Bible notes that Isaac carries the wood not Abraham, Abraham was probably too old. Isaac was a willing victim and trusts he father with his life he could have over taken Abraham, and in 5000 years God is going to send His only beloved son up that same mountain carrying wood and being a willing victim for the sins of the world. Had God not sent Ismail away, I am sure Abraham would have called him instead of Isaac because Isaac is was the beloved son.

Isaac.

Actually Abraham was a gentile. He became the father of the Hebrews the result of his fathering Isaac and the Muslims the result of fathering Ishmael.:shrug:

Wouldn’t Abraham and his family have been Semites having come from Noah’s son Shem?

It would seem so. :shrug:

Good answer and very interesting points. But Sarah told Abraham to get rid of Ishmael and Hagar. There must have been a reason she was so mad at Ishmael. What do you think?

Simple.

She was tacked off at Hagar because she had been intimate with her man. The fact that this was Sarah’s doing only made it worse.

She also did not want Ishmael, being older, to have first place in Daddy’s affection over her own kid.

No references to childhood molestation are necessary.

ICXC NIKA

If you read Genesis she was worried about Isaac’s inheritance and what God promised to Abraham and his descendants and now that she had Isaac she wanted to make sure that it was Isaac that received the inheritance which God told Abraham he would be the father of great nations. There is a bit of an age difference between the two sons I suspect she knew she was older and might not be around to defend a young son against a man. The Bible also says she beat Hagar after she had Ismail so I assume she was jealous and probably self loathing for not listening to God. God in His mercy sends Hagar and Ismail away it seems cruel but God promises that Ismail will be taken care of. There is a split between Christian and Jewish views of Ismail mainly Christians don’t see Ismail as wicked just unfortunate situation that was man made.

That story really shows how the hatred between the Jews and the Muslims began. Because Ismael’s descendents were and are the enemies of the Jews and vice versa.

There were a group of Jahiliya Arabians called Hanifs back then who were not Jews or Christians, but believed in one God, the God of Abraham.

I have seen some Jewish sites where there is mention of child molestation:

jbq.jewishbible.org/assets/Uploads/361/361_sarahsaw.pdf

I think this story means different things to Christians and Jews. For Christians, Isaac prefigures Christ. For Jews, it’s about the split between Ishmael’s descendents and Isaac’s descendents.

Depends on who you ask. My good friend, who is Muslim says Ishmael and Christians/Jews say Isaac.

I don’t know who it was, but I believe it was Ishmael [peace be upon him]. As others have said, it’s true that the Qur’an does not specifically mention which son it was, the relevant passage, which is surah 37:99-113 of the Qur’an, mentions Isaac only after the sacrifice narrative, which, to me, seems to be insinuating that it was Ishmael who was the son [of Abraham] that was called to be sacrificed [peace be upon all three of those men].

For me, it doesn’t matter who it was. All of them were men with God-consciousness [or ‘taqwa’], the Qur’an says.

Why cant the Qur’an state Ishmael? Why is it so difficult to include the fact straightforwardly?

MJ

Do you have further info on this? I’ve never seen ‘Jahiliyya’ used to denote a specific people; I’ve only seen it used as a descriptor for those who are in a state of ‘ignorance’ of Islam.

It was Isaac.
After these things, God tempted Abraham, and said to him: Abraham, Abraham. And he answered: Here I am. He said to him: Take thy only begotten son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and go into the land of vision: and there thou shalt offer him for a holocaust upon one of the mountains which I will show thee. (Genesis 22:1, 2 DRA)

It was in the reading last night at the Easter Vigil. :cool:

Richard Feynman

Awesome! Speak the Truth always. :highprayer:

MJ

There are all sorts of things we can wonder about as to “why this way?” or “why that way?”, but Allah knows best why the text is presented the way it is. He doesn’t have to mention every detail of the narrative for it to be true.

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