Actually Abraham was a gentile. He became the father of the Hebrews the result of his fathering Isaac and the Muslims the result of fathering Ishmael.:shrug:
Wouldn’t Abraham and his family have been Semites having come from Noah’s son Shem?
It would seem so. :shrug:
Good answer and very interesting points. But Sarah told Abraham to get rid of Ishmael and Hagar. There must have been a reason she was so mad at Ishmael. What do you think?
She was tacked off at Hagar because she had been intimate with her man. The fact that this was Sarah’s doing only made it worse.
She also did not want Ishmael, being older, to have first place in Daddy’s affection over her own kid.
No references to childhood molestation are necessary.
If you read Genesis she was worried about Isaac’s inheritance and what God promised to Abraham and his descendants and now that she had Isaac she wanted to make sure that it was Isaac that received the inheritance which God told Abraham he would be the father of great nations. There is a bit of an age difference between the two sons I suspect she knew she was older and might not be around to defend a young son against a man. The Bible also says she beat Hagar after she had Ismail so I assume she was jealous and probably self loathing for not listening to God. God in His mercy sends Hagar and Ismail away it seems cruel but God promises that Ismail will be taken care of. There is a split between Christian and Jewish views of Ismail mainly Christians don’t see Ismail as wicked just unfortunate situation that was man made.
That story really shows how the hatred between the Jews and the Muslims began. Because Ismael’s descendents were and are the enemies of the Jews and vice versa.
There were a group of Jahiliya Arabians called Hanifs back then who were not Jews or Christians, but believed in one God, the God of Abraham.
I have seen some Jewish sites where there is mention of child molestation:
I think this story means different things to Christians and Jews. For Christians, Isaac prefigures Christ. For Jews, it’s about the split between Ishmael’s descendents and Isaac’s descendents.
Depends on who you ask. My good friend, who is Muslim says Ishmael and Christians/Jews say Isaac.
I don’t know who it was, but I believe it was Ishmael [peace be upon him]. As others have said, it’s true that the Qur’an does not specifically mention which son it was, the relevant passage, which is surah 37:99-113 of the Qur’an, mentions Isaac only after the sacrifice narrative, which, to me, seems to be insinuating that it was Ishmael who was the son [of Abraham] that was called to be sacrificed [peace be upon all three of those men].
For me, it doesn’t matter who it was. All of them were men with God-consciousness [or ‘taqwa’], the Qur’an says.
Why cant the Qur’an state Ishmael? Why is it so difficult to include the fact straightforwardly?
Do you have further info on this? I’ve never seen ‘Jahiliyya’ used to denote a specific people; I’ve only seen it used as a descriptor for those who are in a state of ‘ignorance’ of Islam.
It was Isaac.
After these things, God tempted Abraham, and said to him: Abraham, Abraham. And he answered: Here I am. He said to him: Take thy only begotten son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and go into the land of vision: and there thou shalt offer him for a holocaust upon one of the mountains which I will show thee. (Genesis 22:1, 2 DRA)
It was in the reading last night at the Easter Vigil.
Awesome! Speak the Truth always. :highprayer:
There are all sorts of things we can wonder about as to “why this way?” or “why that way?”, but Allah knows best why the text is presented the way it is. He doesn’t have to mention every detail of the narrative for it to be true.
Historically it doesn’t work that way. God gave man reasons to follow Him. God knowing best isn’t Theology. Only man deceives himself by not following God’s precepts.
Allah azza wa jal is ‘Al-Alim’-- the ‘All Knowing’. It’s part of our creed, so it is part of our theology. Look, MJ, my point is that there are some things that we don’t know. I am not saying we should never use the natural reasoning God gave us-- far from it. Indeed, one of the most prominent and most influential Islamic scholars in history, Imam Abu Hanifa [may Allah have mercy on him], advocated this; it’s called ‘qiyaas’. I could speculate why the name of Ishmael [peace be upon him] is not mentioned in the Qur’anic narrative of Abraham’s sacrifice, but it would be just that; speculation.
It’s a non-issue to us muslims.
Not only that, but even in the Christian faith, there are things you don’t know, like who wrote the book of Hebrews and several books in the Old Testament, but that’s not going to stop you from following that path, is it?
Of course God is All Knowing and I know Muslims (like you) believe it in all their heart.
But when it is said God knows best what does it really mean? Are you saying God,can simply erase historical scripture and experiences of man? God knows best what exactly?
See Drac now you yourself are using our Scripture and claiming something. Why? Sadly atheists are even doing it. :eek:
Plus without context of all the experiences of the men and women of Faith in the Risen Christ with all the other NT books as one complete experience of the early Church for the Church by the Church is a pick and choose approach, even used by break away churches.