Who wins?


#1

Here is my post from the SDA thread. i

I kind of wonder this: if we put Joseph Smith, the prophet of LDS in the same room with E.G. White from SDA, and let them have only the bible translations each felt most comfortable with, I wonder who would be converted first? Would E.G. White recognize the work of God in the Book of Mormon, or would Joseph Smith become SDA? And then if we put Ron Hubbard in there as well, (he probably would get along better with Joseph Smith than E.G. White), and Russell from the Jehovah Witness- I wonder what would happen? No way of knowing of course, because they have passed on, but nevertheless. God has obviously revealed a plethora of prophets to us these days. It’s almost a bunch of prophets have individually decided that God himself is confused. What other conclusion could possibly reach with a God who has sent so many divergent messages from such a wide field of prophecy? does not God know what He wants to reveal? Because the only thing any of these prophets agree on is that the Roman Catholic Church is no good. But then we have no startling new revelations to offer. No prophet to put in the room with Hubbard, White, Russell and Smith. Whoops sorry, I forgot about Mary Baker Eddy and Aimee Semple McPherson. Wow.
What think you?


#2

They can fight while I laugh. I’ll just take my ball and go home. http://bestsmileys.com/sports3/6.gif


#3

[quote=iwonder]Here is my post from the SDA thread. i

I kind of wonder this: if we put Joseph Smith, the prophet of LDS in the same room with E.G. White from SDA, and let them have only the bible translations each felt most comfortable with, I wonder who would be converted first? Would E.G. White recognize the work of God in the Book of Mormon, or would Joseph Smith become SDA? And then if we put Ron Hubbard in there as well, (he probably would get along better with Joseph Smith than E.G. White), and Russell from the Jehovah Witness- I wonder what would happen? No way of knowing of course, because they have passed on, but nevertheless. God has obviously revealed a plethora of prophets to us these days. It’s almost a bunch of prophets have individually decided that God himself is confused. What other conclusion could possibly reach with a God who has sent so many divergent messages from such a wide field of prophecy? does not God know what He wants to reveal? Because the only thing any of these prophets agree on is that the Roman Catholic Church is no good. But then we have no startling new revelations to offer. No prophet to put in the room with Hubbard, White, Russell and Smith. Whoops sorry, I forgot about Mary Baker Eddy and Aimee Semple McPherson. Wow.
What think you?
[/quote]

You forgot to add the “all knowing iwonder”.


#4

[quote=wademann]You forgot to add the “all knowing iwonder”.
[/quote]

Why does this question make you angry, wademann. It’s a fair question from one all of you view as a fool. Look at it from a Catholic perspective. When we look out and see this huge number of various churches started by so many prophets at the same time and none of you agree on anything- I mean the SDA’s don’t have plates and moronis, and the Jehovah’s don’t have family nights and Sabbath’s and such, and the Scientologists say they are from alien planets, and the LDS say they are going to have planets- what exactly is the Catholic supposed to think of this? Again the Mormons have their Bible, and the Jehovah Witnesses don’t like that one and have re written another, and so on- do you have any idea what occurs to a Catholic when we see this? And Mary Baker Eddy can cure cancer with simple correct thinking about God, which is very close to the teachings of scientology and so on and so on. Well, really- for every argument the Jehovah’s put forth, the LDS has another answer, and for every argument the LDS puts forth, the SDA’s have an answer. The Catholics still teach what we have taught for 2000years.And you all say we were wrong. But y’all keep trying to fix it and you are creating more chaos than anything else. Now this poor Catholic girl is going to marry someone who thinks he’s from an alien planet but he’s got enough money to buy one wo what of it? But if she married an LDS, I suppose she would learn she is going to have a planet of her own. But only if she does not violate the SDA sabbath, and according to the Jehovah Witnesses, shuns everyone she knows who is not a JW. In the meantime, Christian Science will tell you you are all wrong because your thinking is incorrect and you need a practitioner.
But Jesus told us that many false prophets would arise and come as wolves in sheep clothing- and hey, you certainly have.


#5

[quote=iwonder]Why does this question make you angry, wademann. It’s a fair question from one all of you view as a fool. Look at it from a Catholic perspective. When we look out and see this huge number of various churches started by so many prophets at the same time and none of you agree on anything- I mean the SDA’s don’t have plates and moronis, and the Jehovah’s don’t have family nights and Sabbath’s and such, and the Scientologists say they are from alien planets, and the LDS say they are going to have planets- what exactly is the Catholic supposed to think of this? Again the Mormons have their Bible, and the Jehovah Witnesses don’t like that one and have re written another, and so on- do you have any idea what occurs to a Catholic when we see this? And Mary Baker Eddy can cure cancer with simple correct thinking about God, which is very close to the teachings of scientology and so on and so on. Well, really- for every argument the Jehovah’s put forth, the LDS has another answer, and for every argument the LDS puts forth, the SDA’s have an answer. The Catholics still teach what we have taught for 2000years.And you all say we were wrong. But y’all keep trying to fix it and you are creating more chaos than anything else. Now this poor Catholic girl is going to marry someone who thinks he’s from an alien planet but he’s got enough money to buy one wo what of it? But if she married an LDS, I suppose she would learn she is going to have a planet of her own. But only if she does not violate the SDA sabbath, and according to the Jehovah Witnesses, shuns everyone she knows who is not a JW. In the meantime, Christian Science will tell you you are all wrong because your thinking is incorrect and you need a practitioner.
But Jesus told us that many false prophets would arise and come as wolves in sheep clothing- and hey, you certainly have.
[/quote]

If you do not believe that God can reveal truth and change/correct/alter_the_course of a group of people who profess to follow him then I expect you will be converting to Judaism or perhaps Zoroastrianism. Relative to the Jews, Christians are the late comers. You sound much like the Jews of Jesus’ day.

And not only do you sound like the Jews when it comes to not accepting God’s prophets, but the Jews also saw many variants of Christian-like beliefs which they could point to as well.

I really do not see much strength in this apologetic.

Charity, TOm


#6

[quote=Nan S]They can fight while I laugh. I’ll just take my ball and go home. http://bestsmileys.com/sports3/6.gif
[/quote]

I agree. Wait up Nan, I’ll play ya a game of H.O.R.S.E. :smiley:


#7

[quote=TOmNossor]If you do not believe that God can reveal truth and change/correct/alter_the_course of a group of people who profess to follow him then I expect you will be converting to Judaism or perhaps Zoroastrianism. Relative to the Jews, Christians are the late comers. You sound much like the Jews of Jesus’ day.

And not only do you sound like the Jews when it comes to not accepting God’s prophets, but the Jews also saw many variants of Christian-like beliefs which they could point to as well.

I really do not see much strength in this apologetic.

Charity, TOm
[/quote]

Oh, but Tom, I would never pretend to be an apologetic. All I’m saying is that none of the above religions offer nothing but chaos, because to use your argument that God can reveal new things to the people who follow him, or whatever, then I would have to say that in the 19th century at least, God got confused. Because he revealed to several different people that they were the true prophets and the messages were radically different, prophet to prophet. You see Christian Science, LDS, EG White, and Russell all occurred during the 19th century. And Scientology has it’s roots with the Great Depression and Aimee Semple Mcpherson in Aimee’s temple in L.A. So why would God reveal opposite things to all you guys during the 19th century?
I don’t see much strength in your arguments. Rather, I would have to go and lood at what was going on historically during the 19th century, especially with the economy. It is not unusual for new “prophets” and religions to spring up during times of financial stress. As in the case with Aimee’s temple and Scientology.


#8

[quote=iwonder]Why does this question make you angry, wademann. It’s a fair question from one all of you view as a fool. Look at it from a Catholic perspective. When we look out and see this huge number of various churches started by so many prophets at the same time and none of you agree on anything- I mean the SDA’s don’t have plates and moronis, and the Jehovah’s don’t have family nights and Sabbath’s and such, and the Scientologists say they are from alien planets, and the LDS say they are going to have planets- what exactly is the Catholic supposed to think of this? Again the Mormons have their Bible, and the Jehovah Witnesses don’t like that one and have re written another, and so on- do you have any idea what occurs to a Catholic when we see this? And Mary Baker Eddy can cure cancer with simple correct thinking about God, which is very close to the teachings of scientology and so on and so on. Well, really- for every argument the Jehovah’s put forth, the LDS has another answer, and for every argument the LDS puts forth, the SDA’s have an answer. The Catholics still teach what we have taught for 2000years.And you all say we were wrong. But y’all keep trying to fix it and you are creating more chaos than anything else. Now this poor Catholic girl is going to marry someone who thinks he’s from an alien planet but he’s got enough money to buy one wo what of it? But if she married an LDS, I suppose she would learn she is going to have a planet of her own. But only if she does not violate the SDA sabbath, and according to the Jehovah Witnesses, shuns everyone she knows who is not a JW. In the meantime, Christian Science will tell you you are all wrong because your thinking is incorrect and you need a practitioner.
But Jesus told us that many false prophets would arise and come as wolves in sheep clothing- and hey, you certainly have.
[/quote]

I’m not angry, I’m laughing, you are very funny. I wonder how many catholics would agree with all of your posts, and if they would find you a good reflection, of members in the catholic church. You continually keep throwing out anti-mormon stuff, that has already been addressed on other post’s. It seems your desire is to just antagonize others or to get attention. If I just wanted to get a rise out of catholics, there are alot of anti-catholic stuff that I could just keep throwing out on every new post.


#9

the Jews also saw many variants of Christian-like beliefs which they could point to as well

Josephus Antiquities 18. 1.5 Jesus was in the tradition of the Essenes. So what? We acknowlege that.

You see Christian Science, LDS, EG White, and Russell all occurred during the 19th century. And Scientology has it’s roots with the Great Depression and Aimee Semple Mcpherson in Aimee’s temple in L.A. So why would God reveal opposite things to all you guys during the 19th century?

America has always been a hotbed of unorthodox religious beliefs. I guess it is the nature of the country.


#10

[quote=wademann]I’m not angry, I’m laughing, you are very funny. I wonder how many catholics would agree with all of your posts, and if they would find you a good reflection, of members in the catholic church. You continually keep throwing out anti-mormon stuff, that has already been addressed on other post’s. It seems your desire is to just antagonize others or to get attention. If I just wanted to get a rise out of catholics, there are alot of anti-catholic stuff that I could just keep throwing out on every new post.
[/quote]

Don’t you do that already? I’ve read your posts.
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=62204


#11

[quote=iwonder]Don’t you do that already? I’ve read your posts.
forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=62204
[/quote]

Actually, I knew you were going to say that, I almost addressed it in the last post, but didn’t have time, so I’ll explain now.
When I first looked at this website I just saw a bunch of anti-mormon stuff and didn’t take it very seriously. I had read a few posts and just threw back some stuff without much thought. I then read much deeper into the website and realized that there were some very bright and articulate people(not me), that were open to a civil and honest dialog, about different religions and beliefs. I realized I could, and I have learned a lot, about the catholic, and my own religion. I have a new found respect for the catholic church , because of people like Augustine, Tidnick and others, who even though they don’t share what I and others believe, they still respect the beliefs. I have never used anti-catholic propoganda on my posts. I would think if I just kept throwing out anti-catholic stuff and had a total disregard for other peoples beliefs or feelings, then I would think that eventually I would lose all credibility(big assumtion that I have any) and people would just laugh at my posts(assuming they are not doing that now). I hope you get my point.


#12

[quote=wademann]Actually, I knew you were going to say that, I almost addressed it in the last post, but didn’t have time, so I’ll explain now.
When I first looked at this website I just saw a bunch of anti-mormon stuff and didn’t take it very seriously. I had read a few posts and just threw back some stuff without much thought. I then read much deeper into the website and realized that there were some very bright and articulate people(not me), that were open to a civil and honest dialog, about different religions and beliefs. I realized I could, and I have learned a lot, about the catholic, and my own religion. I have a new found respect for the catholic church , because of people like Augustine, Tidnick and others, who even though they don’t share what I and others believe, they still respect the beliefs. I have never used anti-catholic propoganda on my posts. I would think if I just kept throwing out anti-catholic stuff and had a total disregard for other peoples beliefs or feelings, then I would think that eventually I would lose all credibility(big assumtion that I have any) and people would just laugh at my posts(assuming they are not doing that now). I hope you get my point.
[/quote]

No, I don’t get your point. And I don’t respect your beliefs. I do however, respect you. There is a difference. I suggest you read the post on apologetics to Tom Nosser, as I don’t feel like repeating it.


#13

[quote=iwonder]No, I don’t get your point. And I don’t respect your beliefs. I do however, respect you. There is a difference. I suggest you read the post on apologetics to Tom Nosser, as I don’t feel like repeating it.
[/quote]

Exactly what I told Wademann to do, read the post, it does give some insight to why you say the things you say.  But, still I do respect your right to believe the things you believe and I respect the Catholic Church and it's members. (my husband being one of them)  I can still disagree with their views, and respect their veiws at the same time.  It is just a different spin their interpreters have put on the gospel of Jesus Christ, it is the truth to them as our belief is the truth to us.  That is OK and no amount of splitting hairs is going to amount to a hill of beans in the end.  

With so many different religions as you point out above, the only way to really find out is to ask God. But, you have to be sincere and ask with an open mind and be willing to listen to His answer.
Try it sometime if you really don’t know which is the true Prophet of God. That is exactly what Joseph Smith did when he was confused and he received a direct answer from God. You can too if you have faith that God answers your prayers. He loves you as his child. :slight_smile: BJ


#14

[quote=BJ Colbert]Exactly what I told Wademann to do, read the post, it does give some insight to why you say the things you say. But, still I do respect your right to believe the things you believe and I respect the Catholic Church and it’s members. (my husband being one of them) I can still disagree with their views, and respect their veiws at the same time. It is just a different spin their interpreters have put on the gospel of Jesus Christ, it is the truth to them as our belief is the truth to us. That is OK and no amount of splitting hairs is going to amount to a hill of beans in the end.
With so many different religions as you point out above, the only way to really find out is to ask God. But, you have to be sincere and ask with an open mind and be willing to listen to His answer.
Try it sometime if you really don’t know which is the true Prophet of God. That is exactly what Joseph Smith did when he was confused and he received a direct answer from God. You can too if you have faith that God answers your prayers. He loves you as his child. :slight_smile: BJ
[/quote]

B.J. you obviously respect nothing and no one, including God himself. but never mind. I will offer the Rosary for you tonight.


#15

[quote=iwonder]B.J. you obviously respect nothing and no one, including God himself. but never mind. I will offer the Rosary for you tonight.
[/quote]

What are you talking about? I respect you and your faith and have told you many times. What is going on in your mind? I am expressing my beliefs as you are yours. We both have the right to do that, as that is what this forum is all about. Please show some respect for my beliefs as I do for yours. :frowning: BJ


#16

[quote=BJ Colbert]What are you talking about? I respect you and your faith and have told you many times. What is going on in your mind? I am expressing my beliefs as you are yours. We both have the right to do that, as that is what this forum is all about. Please show some respect for my beliefs as I do for yours. :frowning: BJ
[/quote]

Calling people the mouth of the whore of Babylon is not an example of respect for my beliefs. That is the website you tout isn’t it? whyprophets.com? It tells us that we must have LDS because the church through no fault of it’s members is the mouth of the beast. Now this is what you call respect? You do not have the right to insult in that fashion. You do it because you are on the internet and think you cn get away with it. You may be right, because our God is the most compassionate and forgiving.
You tell us of the apostasy of the church. If we look at evil as the absence of good, can you find me good in the Mormon obssession with 666, beasts, and marks, and all of this? Where is the good, B.J.? All it is mudslinging on your mormon sites. No good. that, B.J. IS the mark of the beast. Hellooooo.


#17

[quote=iwonder]Calling people the mouth of the whore of Babylon is not an example of respect for my beliefs. That is the website you tout isn’t it? whyprophets.com? It tells us that we must have LDS because the church through no fault of it’s members is the mouth of the beast. Now this is what you call respect? You do not have the right to insult in that fashion. You do it because you are on the internet and think you cn get away with it. You may be right, because our God is the most compassionate and forgiving.
You tell us of the apostasy of the church. If we look at evil as the absence of good, can you find me good in the Mormon obssession with 666, beasts, and marks, and all of this? Where is the good, B.J.? All it is mudslinging on your mormon sites. No good. that, B.J. IS the mark of the beast. Hellooooo.
[/quote]

Have you completely lost your mind? I did not say anything about any beast and I advised not to read the website above because it is not the truth. I have not said anything about any of the above. You are totally off base. Your Catholic website told us about the above website. I have not read it in great detail, but what I did read said nothing about the things you say it says. The worst thing I read was about the bibles being taken away, but Tdknick pointed out they were hand written and very precious. I believe him and did not read any more, I also advised wademann not to read it. Where are you reading? I’ve never heard or read such nonsense. I quit apologizing to you. You have gone way over the edge. That is not an official LDS site, the only official LDS site is lds.org. So whatever you are reading on that site about 666 and beasts and marks, I have never seen or heard of except in your above posts. You are the one obsessed with something. :confused: BJ


#18

[quote=BJ Colbert]Have you completely lost your mind? I did not say anything about any beast and I advised not to read the website above because it is not the truth. I have not said anything about any of the above. You are totally off base. Your Catholic website told us about the above website. I have not read it in great detail, but what I did read said nothing about the things you say it says. The worst thing I read was about the bibles being taken away, but Tdknick pointed out they were hand written and very precious. I believe him and did not read any more, I also advised wademann not to read it. Where are you reading? I’ve never heard or read such nonsense. I quit apologizing to you. You have gone way over the edge. That is not an official LDS site, the only official LDS site is lds.org. So whatever you are reading on that site about 666 and beasts and marks, I have never seen or heard of except in your above posts. You are the one obsessed with something. :confused: BJ
[/quote]

Are you LDS, B.J. ? The funny thing about you is whenever something comes up that makes Mormons look not perfect, it is something you have never heard of in your Church. You claim to be Mormon, but you don’t know any of the propaganda your Church is famous for spreading. How does this happen? Your Church has been spreading this “Catholic Church is apsotate” garbage for all of my life. I have heard it over and over fromt he Mormons themselves. But somehow, you as a Mormon, have never heard of it? How can this be? when you are asked about teachings in the Doctrine and Covenants, you don’t know about that either, never heard of it. You ask first why we worship Mary, then you say we don’t, you understand now, then say again that we do, then say you respect our beliefs, and etc, etc. Are you really Mormon, or are you just looking for trouble with someone B.J.?


#19

I could ask if you are really Catholic. You are the one saying all the stuff about the 666 and beasts. Where did you read that?
I have never read it on LDS.org or any official website of the Church. I think you are a rabble rouser sent to this site by another church to attack both Catholics and Mormons. It is not in the D & C and I truthfully have never seen it except in your posts. I admit I do not read anti-Catholic or anti-Mormon literature and when I found the prophets.com website had some untruths I promply disavowed it. But, it was your own Catholic person who recommended we look at it in the first place. Remember the thread"I’m Shocked" That is where it came from, so why are you blaming me? You are the one who told me you worshipped Mary and I told you, I had been told that you didn’t, are you confused? You sure have me confused, and you say you are on a Tribunal? Wow, That must be some confused group of people, if they are trying to follow what you say. :confused: :confused: :confused:
I am massively confused at your posts. BJ


#20

Iwonder,
I would also like to see a few examples of this “Catholic = whore of Babylon” propaganda you claim the LDS church is spreading? It seems you make lots of wild claims but rarely back anything up.
So far I’ve only seen a reference to a some guy’s private website. Do you have any official examples or is this propaganda campaign another “covert operation”?


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