Whoever understands women?


#1

So there he is. Looking remarkably twenty two at his twenty eight, Ol' Chev is strolling ole law school's corridors waiting for his SJD supervisor, same ol' prof he did his first degree with, looking remarkably twenty two to an untrained eye at his twenty eight (a trained eye would spot a sleazy litigous crook off a mile). As always, the star of the show has not officially called off his office hours but unofficially is probably not even in the country at the moment, nor will he be tomorrow. But one's got to wait because various things have happened in the past.

There she comes, looking like Eowyn straight from the Lord of the Rings film. Being at his best casual semi-retired look, a Chicago-taylored grey suit and a sky blue white-pin-striped shirt, no tie (the semi-retired part), black moccasins, completed by a black briefcase looking somewhat more academic than the typical ambulance chaser's, Chev notices her. She asks about the prof, keeping the "sir" in place (must be the commanding presence) and being properly impressed. 'So, ma'am, is that the fourth year?' (it takes five to be over with,) Chev strikes a vaguely benevolent and only slightly protectional tone. Turns out she has just graduated. 'Oh, that's nice, so early,' Chev is not at all fazed. 'I did mine in September. The 17th, in fact. And I had been enrolled in the SJD as of the 15th. Nobody has found out yet.' The conversation takes an hour with significant initiative on Eowyn's part in making sure it does not interrupt, before she sees another lecturer she has business with, a scary lady due to be examining two rookies shortly, or rather executing them, judging by her facial expression. Chev vaguely recalls the lady's having been the reviewer of his thesis except he never saw or talked to her before, during or after.

'I'll be here when you're done,' which does not take that long. Eowyn has one more thing to do, which in turn makes it rather obvious Chev's other business is currently being put on hold but this is not admitted in any way, shape, or form. But she's relaxed and chatting away. 'You're going to the library? How about we take a slight turn and have a coffee for a while?' '...The one next to the Chancellor's office, for instance,' Chev follows through. It works. However, when he hushes her down on her taking out her wallet at the counter, it does not work. 'No, really, I cannot accept such an invitation. I would feel bad with it,' immediately followed by '...next time'. 'Oh, so there is going to be a next time,' Chev does not say out loud, while paying for his double black and exuding complete confidence in not speeding the process to join the girl that already holds her cup. 'Where do we sit down?' she asks. 'That corner over there,' replies Chev without hesitation our doubt to his voice.

They chat for a while, generally about SJD matters and Chev's sharing survival tips and assorted tales of glory of lack thereof. She listens and contributes and corrects her hair and twitches her knees and corrects her hair and twitches her knees. Chev reminds himself to be looking in the face but boy! 'I think it's time to go and see to the formalities,' she says before being helped with the chair and coat. There is no way in the world chev would leave a coffee unfinished (no matter what), so he downs the remaining part in one go. They are outside almost immediately. 'I'll be going.' 'Yup, I was about to bid you goodye,' came back quickly with the easy naturalcy one who has talked back to judges could produce. 'Oh, you were saying something about a next time, ma'am?' Chev recalled 'suddenly'. 'Oh yes, we will surely see each other round from time to time at the faculty, so then.' 'Yeah, sure,' (Chev waved her away with an easy-going expression and went on his business).

What the heck?


#2

Nobody understands women, not even us women. I will say that we like the man to be a man. Initiate... pursue her.... the next time you see her ask her out.... get her number... Best wishes..


#3

Don't let it worry you. Not everyone wants to give out a number or set a "next time" after a couple hours conversation. She may want to get to know you a little more slowly, and less -- what's the word -- intensively at first.

See if you can "accidentally" cross paths again, and enjoy her company as a human being who may never offer you more than some good conversaton.

And if she does offer you more conversations, take the lead and ask her out.

God bless you, dear one -- and enjoy the ride!

Gertie


#4

Usually when a girl doesn't let you pay that's a good indication she's not interested.

She's a colleague.


#5

She's not just a woman. She's an attorney, and probably a very smart one. Let us at least assume she has a somewhat over-trained eye for "sleazy litigous crooks" by now.

I don't think this has anything to do with your pup face or your decision to go without a tie. If she is as smart as you ought to assume she is, she will not give a fig what you wear while roaming the halls off-hours, provided it is within the wide boundaries of decency and civilized grooming that are the prevailing standard in the building.

She is being prudent. Lawyers tend to do that. You were a total stranger. Now you are an acquaintance. She did not meet you in a parish hall at her cousin's wedding where she learned that you are the brother of the priest presiding at the wedding, but in the academic halls of a profession that, let us be frank, teaches the art of telling only those truths that advance one's cause, sometimes to the point of practical deceit. She herself has been taught the value of playing one's cards close to the chest. On top of this, she learned early on that she is stuck with you somewhere in the orbit of her professional life, whether she likes it or not. She does not know from independent sources who your friends or your enemies are, or why. Whether she is enthralled or appalled, she does well not to want to rashly make any enemies or unwise alliances herself. We all know that we can never have noticed another person at work, but as soon as we are introduced, we'll see them everywhere. Caution is in order, when forging relationships with colleagues. The world of law is a small world, and one that presents many opportunities for both hidden patronage and passive aggressive attacks. It is best to take care about who you take on as a friend or an enemy.

Frankly, I think you should take it as a good sign that she did not come out of the gates in hot pursuit. She met you as a lawyer meeting another lawyer, because of the context, if nothing else. Allow that she will be wary of you, as she knows the wide range of character to be found in lawyers, particularly lawyers who seem to want something.

As to whether she likes you, or dislikes you yet might change her initial assessment, that remains to be seen. Be yourself, though; it is a waste of everyone's time to try to sell her on anything else.

You might re-think your priorities with respect to leaving a coffee unfinished, though. Take the Lenten attitude that coffee is a thing, and people come before things. This is something that women, at least that majority that have made social contacts the coin of their realm from childhood, tend to notice and put great stock in.

Good luck. May it work out to God's glory and the salvation of all involved.


#6

I read your story and it sounded nice actually I am not sure why you are discouraged but I suppose I could be missing something.

Many men that I dated, including my husband were men that I was not always immediately interested in dating. Some started as a casual aquaintance and others as co-workers or friends that over time I grew attached to.

She had a cup of coffee with you, I think that is nice. Hopefully you will see her again and then you can smile and have a nice chat. Prayers for you and take care.


#7

When you can explain men to me then I’ll explain women to you…lol :confused::smiley:


#8

I disagree. If I had just ran into a guy I’d never met before and he wanted to pay for my drink, there’s no way I’d let him… even if he were incredibly handsome and I was totally interested! The reason is I wouldn’t want to look like I’m rushing into something or that I’m needy in any way. Now, if he kept insisting, I’d give in for the sake of avoiding embarrassment, but I would much rather pay for my own drink and keep my independence for the moment.

My hunch is that she’s interested, but she wants to think about it some more, while seeing if you are interested enough to pursue her. In my college days, if a man showed interest in me, he would need to pursue and persist, and the more he pursued in a confident and gentlemanly manner, the more interested I became.


#9

Chev, I have nothing to offer you, but I sure enjoyed your little story!

:)


#10

[quote="Luvz2travel, post:7, topic:239430"]
When you can explain men to me then I'll explain women to you...lol :confused::D

[/quote]

What's to explain? We are visual creatures that instinctually want every attractive woman we find. It takes self-control and a moral center to avoid simply following our instincts. Fortunately civilization has discouraged the roughest edges of our tendencies and you don't see constant violence over potential sexual partners.

Women are emotional creatures that instinctually want to find the man with the highest perceived value possible since they only get one bite at the apple procreation-wise. They have a huge array of conscious and subconscious tools at their disposal to weed out men of lesser value and identify those with the highest possible value.

That, at the core, is who we are from an evolutionary perspective. As to who we are on a higher plane, that's up to the individual and his walk with God.


#11

Well…yes and no. There are a million variables that make people inexplicable. Our profound lack of self-knowledge means that the sexual realm is complicated by having conscious and unconscious desires that are at cross-purposes. There are a great many people, male and female, that when asked to explain themselves would say: I have no idea. When you figure me out, you tell me.

For instance, the definition of “high value” can differ wildly from one woman to the next and from the group as a whole when they’re together to the woman alone without social cues to her “ideal” likes and dislikes. Some people, male and female, are so used to following the crowd, they don’t know what they want. Others know, but wouldn’t admit it with a gun to their heads.

Also, how people act even from a totally instinctual point of view depends not only on their desires, but also on their self-perceived ability to compete with others who want the same thing. Some people self-sabatoge in order to rob others of the chance of defeating and humiliating them later. They are afraid that success will be a too-short prelude to very long, very public, and unforgetable failure. This type would never pursue the person they really want, because they are too afraid to fail.

Then there are the people who seek to boost their own self-assessment by going out and finding a “fixer-upper” whom they can either dominate or “save”. Some only feel comfortable when they find someone who will tell them what to do or who will give them the vicarious experience of rebellion.

I could go on, but I think we all get the idea…


#12

You will sooner know God than you will a woman's mind.


#13

[quote="kristleful, post:8, topic:239430"]
I disagree. If I had just ran into a guy I'd never met before and he wanted to pay for my drink, there's no way I'd let him... even if he were incredibly handsome and I was totally interested! The reason is I wouldn't want to look like I'm rushing into something or that I'm needy in any way. Now, if he kept insisting, I'd give in for the sake of avoiding embarrassment, but I would much rather pay for my own drink and keep my independence for the moment.

My hunch is that she's interested, but she wants to think about it some more, while seeing if you are interested enough to pursue her. In my college days, if a man showed interest in me, he would need to pursue and persist, and the more he pursued in a confident and gentlemanly manner, the more interested I became.

[/quote]

You may be right. My husband tells me I don't think like a lot of women. Personally when guys pursued me without my encouragement it just annoyed me. Most women drop hints when they are interested in a guy.

In the OP's story she didn't let him pay and then brushed him off when he asked about next time. She was pretty narrow in how she would see him again. She didn't say "Oh it will be nice to see you again." or "I'll see you around." or better yet "There is a (fill in an event) next Thursday maybe I'll see you then." or "Here's my number." She basically said I will see you in a professional/academic setting. Not really romantic.

But you might be right- she's just playing hard to get.


#14

I'm glad some of you liked the story. I hoped you would. ;)


#15

With all do respect chev.... You may not understand woman but I really didn't understand your story. I am sure you were trying to set a tone or use poetic language but only when I read other people's posts did I gather you are upset that a lady who was willing to have coffee with you was not interested in seeing you again.

And if that is the case, if all woman were like me, it is a very easy explanation (not one you would like though). Just because a woman enjoys a guy's company, it does not mean she is interested romantically. If I had a hour to kill at the office and a nice guy asked me for cofffee I would go because I would be looking forward to good conversation. But when he asked for a follow up meeting, I would be vague because I would not want to lead him on.

Don't despair, the possibility that once she gets to know you she could change her mind exists. But she just wanted to have a pleasant conversation with you. Again if she was anything like me

CM


#16

You know what else women like? When guys talk about themselves in the third-person. :rolleyes:


#17

Actually, you’re getting the correct impression. That’s because this is just a cheeky little story about a mood swing. No drama here. Probably should’ve explained in the opening post.

I’d have used the fourth but I’m still waiting for it to be invented.


#18

[quote="EasterJoy, post:5, topic:239430"]
You might re-think your priorities with respect to leaving a coffee unfinished, though. Take the Lenten attitude that coffee is a thing, and people come before things. This is something that women, at least that majority that have made social contacts the coin of their realm from childhood, tend to notice and put great stock in.

[/quote]

This is fickleness distilled to it's purest form. The guy spends a few hours being polite and charming, but according to you, what's really important is his decision to finish or not finish a cup of coffee. Depending on the mood or disposition of the woman he was talking to, she could just as easily have "put great stock" in his decision to "waste" the rest of his coffee by throwing it away. I can only imagine the similarly trivial and equally irrational judgments that have been silently passed on me during those first dates that are never followed by a 2nd. What a bunch of garbage.


#19

I just stumbled across this thread and as a young woman I can't say I understand women :) , but I am glad you wrote this because it helps me see how men view encounters with women they find attractive. I can be chatty and friendly and not have any intention of anything more. This explains a lot... :shrug:


#20

[LEFT]Chev, all I can say is that we are two peoples separated by a common language!

I had more fun reading for grammar and style than for content, although the content was interesting.

Good luck!
[/LEFT]


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