"Whore of Babylon?"

Okay… so i keep hearing from some Christian denominations (mainly 7th Day Adventists), that the Roman Church is the “Great Harlot” of Revelation. They support this claim by stating that the city of Rome sits on seven hills (which it does), that certian ranks of clergy wear scarlet and purple (also mentioned in Revelation), that both are decked out in precious pearls and gems (mentioned in Revelation). Some even go so far as to say that the Vatican is the "Temple " in which the Pope (Antichrist/ False Prophet) pretends to be God. So who or what REALLY is the Whore of Babylon, and how do I counter such accusations against the Church.:shrug:

The “Whore of Babylon” is actually the Emperor Nero; his temples were dedicated to many false Roman gods - and yes, “Babylon” is code for Rome - but not the Vatican.

The Book of Revelation was written in about 95 AD, and refers to the situation as it existed during that era. The way some Protestants talk, you would think it was written last weekend - it does not actually apply to us, or refer to any situation that is going on today.

Jmcrae…yes…this reference is not implicating the Catholic Church.

My experience with devout SDA is that they do not comprehend or accept anything or any work of the Church, seeing the Word of God absolute over the Church, even though we did not have use of Bible for general population until they could read.

Amen!!!

This theory does enormous violence to the text. After Nero died or the Roman Empire was eventually converted, death was not no more nor did people cease to cry, etc., etc.

The text was actually written while Saint John was exiled on Patmos under the reign of Nero i.e. circa A.D. 60’s. This can only be doubted if you don’t believe the Apocalypse itself, which prophesies the siege and sacking of Jerusalem and places itself within the reign of Nero. The whole event is meant to prelude or foreshadow the end of the world, as another beast (after the Roman Empire) is said to still come.

This also explains why Tradition holds Nero to be a type or prefigurement of Antichrist.

The astonishing prophetic accuracy of Saint John’s Apocalypse is undoubtedly what gave such a mysterious and subtle text such widespread currency in the early Church, and impressed Christians that it was truly inspired by the Holy Ghost. From both history and Tradition we know that the destruction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem had enormous significance for the early Christians, who saw in it a confirmation of their beliefs and prophecies. Those who listened to its warnings would have been saved from the horrible siege of Jerusalem for example. The early Christians were unlikely to have had any reason to want to have a very vague and confusing text circulating around that they would subsequently have to try to defend from controvertists or explain to converts/catechumens. Naturally, anti-Christians claimed that the text was a fraud that was drafted rather after the predicted event in A.D. 70: i.e. that it was written in the circa A.D. 90s.

Nonetheless, the whole prophecy was only partly fulfilled by the destruction of the Second Temple, hence it did and does retain a futuristic expectation. To fancy that the whole Church thought an already fulfilled prophesy was yet to be fulfilled is to charge the Church with believing an enormous error at the very heart of the Deposit of Faith.

It also explains the sense of immanency that so marked the writings of the early Church Fathers in regards to the end of time.

The Pope could never be the anti-christ these non catholics are looking for.

It amazes me how Christians are called to look of the second coming of Christ and keep their lamps oiled (working) for the day.

Instead they spend millions of dollars and time looking for the anti-christ.

The Pope can never be anti-christ because it takes a triple 6 beast to be anti-christ.

The first 6 reveals the the anti-christ is personally sinful and corrupt neglecting all morality, the second 6 reveals that this anti-christ-person possesses power over religion in corruption and makes himself god over people or denies the true God and makes his followers worship false gods, the third 6 reveals this anti-christ possesses secular power in corruption, by mulitplying its armies, weapons of destruction and makes war, seeking to mulitply its wealth from the nations.

The Pope has no worldly secular power to raise an army, The Pope is against war, the pope does not have ultimate worldly power to become ultimately corrupted personally, religiously, and does not possess secular powers to raise armies and make war and mulitply wealth from the nations to himself.

Another words for the Pope to be an anti-christ. The Pope would have to rule over both religions and nations and claim to be a god. For 2000 years attempts from hell came against the Popes as far as secular powers and corruption, but they will never prevail.

666 is such an overrated and man made invented theology by almost all the adventist groups such as 7th day adventist, Mormonism, JW’s, Anabaptist’s, Evangelicals. 666 calls for wisdom not speculation and falsehoods.

I think the whore of babylon is joel osteens megachurch:D:D:D

Yeah but Vatican Hill was not one of the seven hills of Rome…the SDA first historical error.

The whore of babylon, in all likelihood is islam

False prophet- Isa
Anti-Christ- Mahdi
Allah- Satan

It follows through quite clearly, I could be wrong, and hope I am, but of all groups and institutions nothing is more sacriligeous or evil than islam

Yep.

Vatican Hill is outside the city limits of Rome at that time. Rome sits on 7 hills, and Vatican Hill is not one of them. So this would mean that either the Vatican is NOT the whore of Babylon, or the Bible is in error because it should read 8 instead of 7.

Ask them which error they choose to believe. Theirs or the Bible’s?

Athens sits on 7 hills…and so does Jerusalem…and somebody gave someone here a few months ago the list of many cities throughout the world that sit on 7 hills.

So much waste of becoming a better Christian by attacking and exalting one’s self.

Ellen G White the founder of the SDA church is beleived by them to be an inspired “prophetss”, her writtings equivalent to the bible.

She wrote and plagarised a book called the “Great Controversy”. part of the SDA canon.

That book is full of historical inacuracies about the church. and downright lies.

And as they are such, entertaining in debate with those who hold to them is a waste of time and effort.

Jon

I just don’t get it? When did God ever build His Church upon Ellen G. White, a woman?

Why do these christian sects claim to the bible as their truth, yet deny Jesus ever built his Church upon Peter and his apostles, which is recorded in their bibles? And follow a Woman’s teachings instead of the bible?

What Woman is this that men fall after her teachings? A prophet? A protester against the Church Jesus built upon Peter and the apostles?

What Woman drinks the blood of Catholic Martrys and Saints so as to disbelieve in them and protest against Peter’s divine office in Jesus Christ visible in every age in Peter’s apostolic successors in the Popes?

The anti-christ was already here before Jesus passion, death and resurrection. Jesus tells His Church “do not be afraid”, “I am with you always”.

Scripture records “Fear is of the devil”, Catholic Christians are called not to fear this fear of the Anti-Christ, because God has given the Church the power to tread on serpents and expell them in Jesus name.

In fairness, when the SDA were founded the Pope’s residence was on one of the seven hills.

Its not so much a historical error on their part, as a failure to keep up with current events. :smiley:

And yet are not the SDA’s and Mormons who are looking to build their own church’s in
Rome?

When it comes to the Revelation, let us always remember that the Revelation was to encourage, first of all, the seven churches. How would the Christians at that time be encouraged if all that was to occur was to occur 2000-plus years later? The Revelation was just as relevant to those Christians as it is today. There are many who believe that the events are continuous cycles. Will anyone deny that Nero was Anti-Christ? Will anyone deny that Hitler was Anti-Christ?

I was a Lutheran LCMS prior to coming to the Catholic Church. Lutherans believe the Pope is Anti-Christ. I asked what would the litmus test be as far as being Christian. The answer, unanimously, was the Nicene Creed. Well, I believe the Pope is baptized and believes the Nicene Creed. As a matter of fact, it is the Catholic Church which wrote the Nicene Creed.

Only the Catholic Church can trace its roots to the apostles and our Lord Jesus Christ. St. Peter was Pope and was martyred in Rome.

Furthermore, when one reads “Babylon,” they go back to the OT. If we do that, can we not see many Babylons? Germany, in the 30’s and early 40’s? China, present-time? At a lower scale, Sudan? Also, let us look at Europe and currently in the United States. Governments all over the world are attempting to suppress Christianity. President Obama is literally attacking the Catholic Church. Even if he does retract now, if he is re-elected what would stop him from implementing it again. Not only the President is doing this; there are many in the Democratic Party which give him their support. Hence, can we not envision the probability that the U.S. Government may become a “whore of Babylon”? Its tentacles are reaching outside the U.S.

There are a lot of cities out there that were founded on seven hills.

Ancient Babylon in Iraq and Constantinople (now Istanbul, in Turkey) were both founded on seven hills.

I think you should counter such accusations by asking them what evidence do they have that their theories correspond with the truth.

The Lutheran Confessions state that the Papal Office is the Anti-Christ, not the person that occupies it.

sheldonemrylibrary.com/mysterybabylon.htm - What Is Mystery Babylon?

The list of chapters from the book…

1 The Foundation
2 The Seven Plagues
3 Evil In Three Parts
4 The Four Beasts
5 The Rapture Neutralization Process
6 The Re-gathering, Captivity and Deliverance of Israel
7 Israel Triumphs Over Mystery Babylon

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