Whore Of Babylon


#1

My Grandma and I were discussing this topic today and she kept saying the Roman Catholic church is the “whore of Babylon” and I said no it wasn’t. Isn’t it the Devil or the Antichrist? My Aunt and I believe it’s the Devil; my Grandma kept was saying it was the Catholic church (I guess she’s trying to scare me into not joining the church). Why she doesn’t want me too I’ll never understand.

Could someone please give me Bible verses referencing about the “whore of Babylon”? And could you explain in simpler terms who/what the “whore of Babylon” is? I am having such a difficult time understanding it.

Thank you. :slight_smile:


#2

Traditionally the ‘great harlot’ in John’s apocalypse is a personification of Rome, which had authority over many kings throughout the Mediterranean world and which drank the blood of the early Christian martyrs, although there is a “if the shoe fits, wear it” logic that can be applied to these passages. A modern state hostile to Christians is also a great harlot.

Revelation 17: 1-18:
**Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who is seated upon many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and with the wine of whose fornication the dwellers on earth have become drunk.” 3 And he carried me away in the Spirit into a wilderness, and I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast which was full of blasphemous names, and it had seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and bedecked with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her fornication; 5 and on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of harlots and of earth’s abominations.” 6 And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints and the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.

When I saw her I marveled greatly. 7 But the angel said to me, “Why marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast with seven heads and ten horns that carries her. 8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is to ascend from the bottomless pit and go to perdition; and the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will marvel to behold the beast, because it was and is not and is to come. 9 This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven hills on which the woman is seated; 10 they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he comes he must remain only a little while. 11 As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to perdition. 12 And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast. 13 These are of one mind and give over their power and authority to the beast; 14 they will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.”

15 And he said to me, “The waters that you saw, where the harlot is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and tongues. 16 And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the harlot; they will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, 17 for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by being of one mind and giving over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled. 18 And the woman that you saw is the great city which has dominion over the kings of the earth.”**

The Roman world was later converted to Christianity and the Roman Empire fell. A great many protestant reformers in the 1500s, when protestants were first breaking away from the universal Church, used these passages to try to say that it was referring to the contemporary Rome of their time (where the Vatican is located). There’s not a ton of protestants anymore that believe that, but when tensions were extremely high in the 1500s it was popular and fashionable for protestants to call the Catholic Church the whore of Babylon.


#3

Pagan Roman Empire … Not the Catholic Church.

And besides, the Vatican sits upon 1 hill. Not 7. Rome sits upon 7.


#4

1 Peter 5:13:
The church that is in Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you: and so doth my son Mark.

Let scripture interpret scripture. The Jews saw the pagan Roman Empire as another Babylon. If we listen to scripture, we learn that Babylon is the city opposed to God and His people - opposed to Jerusalem or Zion. Babylon is a wordly empire that opposes itself to God. The Catholic Church was persecuted by the Roman Empire exactly because she refused to give divine honours to mere men., specifically the emperor.


#5

I know its hard - I came from a different faith tradition to the Catholic faith - lots of anti-Catholic feeling still exists and its decades now since I swam the Tiber and returned home to the authentic roots of Christianity :shrug:

Here is some information on anti-Catholic bigotry in the United States:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Catholicism_in_the_United_States

If you can find a copy of *The Persistent Prejudice: Anti-Catholicism in America
by Michael Schwartz *… it is a very good historical look at the subject and I highly recommend it …

You should be able to request it through inter-library loan if your local library does not have it

read some about it here …

goodreads.com/book/show/6499263-the-persistent-prejudice

Good luck - bigotry is hard to combat - but understanding its origins can help you cope with your decisions :thumbsup: and perhaps help you keep a measure of peace and a truce with your family :wink:


#6

Thanks for the explanations!


#7

Thank you!


#8

Actually, that great reformer Martin Luther himself, who is today highly regarded in many Catholic circles as being merely ahead of his time, stated that the Roman Pontiff is the whore of Babylon.

And yes, ther are a lot ofprotestants today believe that exact same thing. Don’t thinkfor a second that there are not.

Cheers:thumbsup:


#9

Actually, the protestants are rebellious, heretical, sodomic, and venomous
Leave them now


#10

not only that, at the time of the early church, the Vatican Hill was outside the walls of Rome. Vatican Hill was chosen because it was the cite of St. Peter’s grave. Basically the Vatican area was a graveyard.


#11

Ack! Don’t make it worse than it is…

Luther’s Smalcald Articles a say the Papal office is anti-christ. And when we say anti-christ, it has nothing to do with the 666/Beast of the dispensationalist rapture types.

Even with that said, Us confessional Lutherans felt honored when Pope Benedict greeted us recently.

So Yes… there are protestants that do think such crazy thoughts, but if you find a Lutheran thinking such please feel free to correct them.


#12

Has anyone ever tried to convert you to the one true catholic faith?


#13

Stop.

Privately message me with your issues otherwise you are on a fast track to being banned. You have obviously bought into the same false and erroneous literature I bought into a long time ago. It is false. Moreover, you are doing a tremendous harm and disservice to the name of Traditional Catholic.

Bishop and Father Augustine regularly met with the Donatists to promote peace and tolerance between Catholics and Donatists in North Africa. If he dared to accuse them of being outrageously heretical or - even more insanely - of being Sodomites then they would not have maintained communications with him. They did.

Of course we Catholics believe that - thanks to God’s grace - we have the fullness of truth of divine revelation. Notwithstanding, nothing about said revelation excuses us from prudence, civility, good-will, brotherly love and charity. Your bigoted rhetoric makes a scandal of our holy faith. Therefore for the good Lord’s sake cease it immediately and do not prevent those who are coming toward the truth from entering.


#14

Actually my understanding has been quite different from some of the other posters here. The anti-Christ refers to the emperor Nero as commonly thought who was the emperor of Rome but the Whore of Babylon refers to Jerusalem where there was a center of commerce, and 7 mountains sit around it (Rome has hills),The seven mountains upon which Jerusalem was built are Mount Zion, Mount Ophel, Mount Moriah, Mount Bezetha, Mount Acra, Mount Gareb, and Mount Goath. Look to Ezekiel 16 and you’ll see that Jerusalem is the Whore of Babylon. It is also the city where Our Lord was crucified. Revelation 11:8

The Apostle John here is talking about what happened in Jerusalem when Jesus was crucified. Johns not talking about a future event, Johns giving witness of what happened in these scriptures. He was in exile on the Island of Patmos when he wrote these scriptures and is reflecting on them and what happened. You could look at this more broadly when you know that at the time when Jesus was crucified the Roman empire was in control of Jerusalem.


#15

Yes! And I appreciate the loving kindness that it represents. I don’t try to ‘convert’ Catholics as we Lutherans have a no need - we view the Catholic faith as valid because you proclaim the Gospels and administer the Sacraments. I do my best to convince secularized Catholic to go back to their Catholic pews - and have found that the Holy Spirit does convert people back into faith. Praise be to God!

The Godparents (sponsors) of my third child are Catholic and I treasure their involvement with our family, their good example to my children, and their steadfast faith. If any of my children become Catholic, I would rejoice in their faith.


#16

That’s an old (and I mean OLD) charge against the Church. Apparently, since the Cardinals wear scarlet and priests sometimes wear scarlet, and the Harlot wears scarlet and rides a scarlet beast, then that’s proof positive that the Church is the Whore of Babyon. The problem is, the Church doesn’t match any of the other characteristics of the Whore or the Beast (i.e., Rev. 18:11-13). The Vatican doesn’t buy very many cattle or sheep, for example, and it’s been … why … YEARS since we’ve taken or sold slaves. Decades, even. :rolleyes:

What’s more, despite what she might have read in some Jack Chick comic, the Church doesn’t torture and kill martyrs.

I’ve read compelling arguments that the Whore is Islam, or it is the current financial system. The truth is we don’t know and won’t know until G_D reveals that to us through the Holy Spirit.


#17

No need to reinvent the wheel: Catholic Answers has excellent tracts on this topic on this very website. Here’s a link:

The Whore of Babylon


#18

Let me guess–your grandma is an Adventist, right? I used to hear this cr*p from an ex-employee of mine who was born and raised in that particular belief system!:shrug:


#19

:slight_smile:

:slight_smile:


#20

Thanks!


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