Who's Who in CAF? I'm just Curious


in case you don’t know the terms:

5-point Calvinist (per wikipedia)
The five points of Calvinism, which can be remembered by the English mnemonic TULIP are:
*]Total depravity (or total inability): As a consequence of the Fall of man, every person born into the world is enslaved to the service of sin. According to the view, people are not by nature inclined to love God with their whole heart, mind, or strength, but rather all are inclined to serve their own interests over those of their neighbor and to reject the rule of God. Thus, all people by their own faculties are morally unable to choose to follow God and be saved because they are unwilling to do so out of the necessity of their own natures.
*]Unconditional election: God’s choice from eternity of those whom he will bring to himself is not based on foreseen virtue, merit, or faith in those people. Rather, it is unconditionally grounded in God’s mercy.
*]Limited atonement (or particular redemption or definite atonement): The death of Christ actually takes away the penalty of sins of those on whom God has chosen to have mercy. It is “limited” to taking away the sins of the elect, not of all humanity, and it is “definite” and “particular” because atonement is certain for those particular persons.
*]Irresistible grace (or efficacious grace): The saving grace of God is effectually applied to those whom he has determined to save (the elect) and, in God’s timing, overcomes their resistance to obeying the call of the gospel, bringing them to a saving faith in Christ.
*]Perseverance of the saints (or preservation of the saints): Any person who has once been truly saved from damnation must necessarily persevere and cannot later be condemned. The word saints is used in the sense in which it is used in the Bible to refer to all who are set apart by God, not in the technical sense of one who is exceptionally holy, canonized, or in heaven (see Saint).[/LIST]

Arminian (per wikipedia)

Arminianism holds to the following tenets:
*]Humans are naturally unable to make any effort towards salvation
*]Salvation is possible by grace alone
*]Works of human effort cannot cause or contribute to salvation
*]God’s election is conditional on faith in Jesus
*]Jesus’ atonement was potentially for all people
*]God allows his grace to be resisted by those unwilling to believe
*]Salvation can be lost, as continued salvation is conditional upon continued faith[/LIST]
I’m not as familiar with Thomism and Molinism so any Catholic who’d like to sum them up is certianly welcome. :thumbsup:

-Similar to Calvinist


-Similar to [FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma][FONT=Tahoma]Arminian.
-God Knows who will be choose to be saved
-[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]God knows all that will come to pass including all the possibilities.
-see: newadvent.org/cathen/10437a.htm


I put down “Catholic, other” since I was totally unable to understand most of what you posted. This is NOT an attack or snub, just the honest feelings of an RCIA Candidate


Sorry, the post was supposed to help clarify the options, I guess I didn’t clarify very well.

[quote=http://jimmyakin.typepad.com/defensor_fidei/2007/01/thomist_or_moli.html]Thomism and Molinism are the two best-known schools of Catholic thought regarding the subjects of predestination, grace, and free will.

Catholics are free to believe either. I was curious who believed which. :slight_smile:


I am a Christian.
However, to clarify, I could also accurately be called a Mid-Acts dispensationalist right dividing OSAS King James Only Pauline nondenominational Christian.
I am adamently opposed to the false doctrines of Calvinism and Arminianism.
I have also been called a fundamentalist, which I will accept, but lumps me in with a group that is not usually dispensational.
For the purpose of the poll, I am Protestant/other.


I’m a Vatican II fundamentalist.


Thats quite a title :D. Do you have a home church with like believing people who attend there with you?

Do you disagree with all ten points? Or just some from each side?


I’m a Catholic Molinist. The whole predestination thing seems so contradictory to Scripture. I believe that God gave man free will to choose Him or reject Him, but I also believe that since God is omniscient He knows what choice man is going to make but does not force man to make the choice.


Hellenic Neopagan Unitarian Universalist


I’ll go out on a limb and guess that most Catholics here are more like the Molinist view than the Thomist. I’m not sure if the responses to the poll will reflect this or not, though. I’m best described as a Thomist.




Calvinism is incomptablible with grace. Its manifestation is a Calvinistic mindset that God has controlled all events, in all times. Cat dies, its God’s will. Stub your toe and break it. God must be telling me something. Examples abound all around us with this “victim of circumstances” mentality.
The chief area of disagreement with Wesleyan/Arminianism thought is the role of works in salvation. Conditional salvation is a buzz word for Christians too *conditioned * to admit they are works based Christians. Since you asked.


thanks for clarifying your belief :slight_smile: I have lots I’d like to say but don’t want to derail the thread… maybe we can start another thread on it sometime…


I answered “Catholic - Other” because I am resolutely non-scholastic.


Yes, sometime. We have so many areas of disagreement. Sometime…
As far as the church question, and then I will leave the thread in peace.


Agnostic/secular humanist.



I put Protestant other because as Im reading the info. I would say myself and the church I belong to is in the middle of the road between Calvinist and Arminianism. What does that make me a

Carmanist:shrug: Hey should I start my own religion:p :smiley:


I’m a member of the Religious Society of Friends. I seek to follow the Light Within and develop a strong spiritual life where the Fruits of the Spirit are evident.


I have no idea what you mean by Catholic-Tomist, Catholic-Molinist. Never heard of the terms, Can you please explain?


[quote=Publisher]I’m a member of the Religious Society of Friends. I seek to follow the Light Within and develop a strong spiritual life where the Fruits of the Spirit are evident.

Religious Society of Friends AKA Quakers
never to be confused with the Religious Society of Enemas.


It would be good if the OP would give a concise, yet clear explanation of what Molinism vis-a-vis Thomism is, so we can all give better responses to the poll.

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