Thank you for your prayers and kind words of support. I have actually told three different priests about my sexual orientation in the confessional and they have been extremely caring and supportive. They remind me that I am a child of God and that even if it is a heavy cross to carry, I should keep praying for strength and offer up my suffering for the conversion of sinners. One of them also told me to meditate on 2 Corinthians 12:10 in times of sadness. Again, thanks for the advice!
The suffering souls in purgatory would also greatly benefit if you offered up your suffering for them:)
That’s actually what I have been doing for quite some time. I also offer it up for the conversion of my family and sinners. And thank you for your prayers and support!
I’ll do my best to remember you in mine, try to throw a few prayers my way too some time:)
2 Corinthians 12:10
Yes! This passage is the source of much life for me.
“my grace is sufficient for you”
Even St Paul had difficult crosses to bear, and they were the source of his blessing!
Reading this passage brings a sense of gratitude for whatever God brings our way.
No problem, I’d be glad to keep you in my prayers:)
Being homosexual is not a sin any more than being a heterosexual is a sin. It is just as sinful for a heterosexual individual to have sex and not be open to life. The Church teaches that to use sex for any purpose other than procreation and for the bonding of a mother and father for the well fare of children, is against nature.
You are not alone in dealing with your sexuality. If you don’t want to accept the teaching of the Church look to good Old Mother Nature. She loves the babies.
The teachings of Darwin’s Theory of Evolution - “The Survival of the Fittest” is more unkind to homosexuals than the Church’s teaching. “The Survival of the Fittest” states that homosexuals are unfit as they do not procreate with their sexual activities. Therefore, as far as nature goes, they are unnecessary. The Church’s teachings are just the opposite. A homosexual has many gifts, talents and love to give to the poor, the hungry and the lonely. Just as single men and women who live a chaste life, they have wonderful gifts to give to mankind.
This is a very interesting point of view! If you think about it, the things you have had to deal with: prejudice, people being unkind and judgemental have all formed you into the concious and caring person that you are today. They make you more attuned to the struggles of people around you that have been the victims of prejudice. Had you come into the world heterosexual, those very precious gifts you have obtained through your life experiences may very well not exist in you. You have so much to give and are so very lucky that you have such a great relationship with God. God knew the special ingredients it would take when he made you- he knew what it would take so that you’d develop the qualities and faith to come home to him one day:)
[INDENT]~ Thanks to all for the replies thus far ~
I will make a general reply to the Original Sin aspect of all of this and then comment on some of the posts later when I have time.
I realize that every person endures struggles and temptations; everyone has an inclination to sin thanks to the Fall. Some people are in fact more prone to certain sins. The Catholic understanding is that homosexual persons have a specific tendency towards certain disordered acts or lifestyles, whether it be sexual behavior or even a committed relationship with another person of the same sex.
And so perhaps my struggle is not really with how it is anyone is inclined to sin. I understand the general Catholic principle of why it is we sin: We are human, therefore imperfect, and without the original gifts given to Adam, we are prone to fall. The Fall is not something positive; the Catholic understanding is that is a privation – a privation of grace and the gifts given to and lost in Adam. Our nature is wounded only in a relative since of what we might have had had Adam not sinned: sanctifying grace and friendship with God, and the gift of integrity.
But with homosexuality, Original Sin doesn’t seem to account well for its existence. The “sinful tendency” – the attraction to members of the same sex, the desire to have a committed relationship, etc. – is supposed to be a result of the Fall. Often, people describe homosexuality and so many other things as nebulous effects of the Fall; as if little dark forces burst out of the forbidden fruit and fly into various souls: This person is infected the homosexual tendency! This person is infected with a proneness to anger! This person, alcoholism! Etc. I know that sounds silly – and it is a parody, but I have yet to receive a good explanation for how the Fall is linked with so many “sinful tendencies” inherent in the very makeup of the person, even one’s biology.
My struggle may in fact be with the understanding of Original Sin in general, and how it allegedly affects our very biology. To some extent, the homosexual orientation/inclination must be biological. For the human person is soul AND body, and we experience our sexuality in very bodily ways.
Some people in the Church say that, even if homosexuality is genetic or biological, that wouldn’t disprove the immorality of homosexual acts. However, to me it does seem to make a big difference. For if homosexuality is biological, that would mean the Church considers Original Sin to have affected our biology or genetics. If that’s the case, it would mean Original Sin very much is a positive punishment to human nature, receiving all kinds of new “viruses,” so to speak. Adam sins, so God decides to tweak human nature – even our very DNA or biology to punish us. That’s what is sounds like.
It seems that a more sensible way to understand all of this, if we want to maintain a connection between homosexuality and the Fall is to say that, even if we were not in a fallen world, homosexuality would still exist. But in a world not fallen, all people would have the gift of integrity. Therefore, people would not experience homosexuality the same way; they would be more apt to follow God’s will.
If this were* not* the case, then it seems that the only other option is that homosexuality is in fact not only intrinsic to the physical setup of humanity, but it is part of God’s plan for human relational fulfillment.
I hope I’m articulating my thoughts okay.
BUT I appreciate all attempts to try!
I’m having the trouble of seeing how tendency to sin in terms of sexual attraction to the same sex is particularly different from other tendencies to sin (heterosexual attraction to women who are not your wife does not go away after marriage, for example, yet it is still a disordered inclination inasmuch as it is an inclination towards sin). This is to say “For the same reason other people other people have consistent inclination to sin,” which is an absolute non-answer, but it might help to reframe the question slightly.
I think there is a difference, however subtle, even between the homosexual tendency and other inclinations to sexual sin. A heterosexual male may be tempted here and there to lustful thoughts, or to cheat on his wife, etc. The struggle may be real; assaults against chastity exist in many forms. But it seems the homosexual “tendency” is precisely different because, in many ways, it is an orientation: an orientation to a certain way of relating to people of the same sex, a consistent manner of understanding ideals of relational fulfillment. It’s not just an occasion of sin here or there. Even when there is no person to engage in sexual activity with, or a thought to entertain to the point of lust, there is still this gnawing in the very heart of the gay person. Like an arrow pointing a certain direction. The human is not reduced to his or her sexual attractions. But humans are made (1) bodily and (2) relational/social, and therefore sexuality is a significant aspect of the person.
I think tightly wrapped up in your question here is also the question of why God would ask someone to sacrifice a happy marital union in virtue of having attraction to the same sex.
- It is a life that more closely resembles Christ, given that Christ Himself was single and chaste.
- It is an eschatological witness to the fact that there will be no marriage in Heaven and thus such a person is living and striving for Heaven here on earth.
- It is a witness to a world so enveloped by sexual vice such that one is called, through their sacrifice of chastity, to show how happiness and fulfillment can be found in Christ and that one can, despite natural inclinations, live a life of purity without giving into sexual desire.
Not a particularly worked-out answer, and the reframing might have been less helpful than hoped, but it is a start.
These are very good points. And I think they work well as to address how God may use such an individual to bring good out of the evil. Nevertheless, God does not “send” us crosses; he does not desire anyone to suffer for the sake of suffering. I do not believe God specifically made me to be prone towards a certain sin, just so certain goods can come out of it. Perhaps he may bring good out of it all, but I still struggle with the origin of the whole thing, if homosexuality is in fact against God’s plan.
Going from there, then, God antecedently wills that there be no evil and disorder in the world. God wills consequently, however, that due to disorder and original sin affecting the world, it is permissible that person X will have a certain set of disorders, person Y another set, and person Z yet another. In short, because of human free will, God is left rescuing a disordered world rather than having union with a perfect one such that he permits certain evils and disorders to befall people (He permits rather than actively willing such evils).
Okay so I’m glad you see that homosexuality would be something God permits an individual have and not something he actually wills the person to have. So the only question is how in fact is it a consequence of the Fall, and why is it so? I think the mechanism matters. As I discussed in my second post, if homosexuality and such disordered tendencies to sin are biological, it seems God is somewhat to blame: Is Original Sin a positive punishment, inflicted on our very biology? Etc.
My thought is that homosexuality is genetic. People (in some cases anyway) are born that way. There is no doubt in my mind of that… but my thinking leads me to believe it’s “gifted” (if you will) on certain souls as a way of leading you to God. Sacrifice and suffering aren’t God’s way of punishing us, but a way to challenge us. It’s His way of making us grow and encouraging us to learn to find ways to find Him. I think focusing so much on the scientific aspects of how our DNA has changed and altered to allow this to happen is dangerous. There aren’t always scientific answers for everything. Science is a study of nature, of chemical reactions. We as Christians, have to take it a step further and realize that it’s a study of the endless power and knowledge of our God. How spectacular is our existance- how the world turns and how the earth and everything on it gives us, as well as all of the animals and plants what they need to survive. You can’t attribute your characteristics to science and biology- they aren’t all due to DNA and chemical reactions… they are because God wished them to be that way. You have to find your answers not in the study of the sciences, but through studying the being who created this world and gave us the ability to study the sciences. Every human on earth has a purpose- something they were put on earth to achieve. All of us were put here on earth for a purpose- to learn and grow and help each other attain the kingdom of heaven. We were all given our crosses to bear and put in the places God needed us to be in order to help those around us that he needs us to reach. A child born with a disability, or a family who experiences the death of a child will feel as though they were being punished, but nobody knows why God allowed it to happen. That child’s death could lead a family member, or a complete stranger who reads about it in the paper to God. It could be that that child’s suffering was used to pay a debt to God and save someone’s soul half way around the world.
Everyone of us has flaws, but those flaws (not calling homosexuality a flaw), but they shouldn’t be seen as such- because God doesn’t make mistakes. God gives us the tools we need to properly mold us, as well as the people around us into his image
There is a disconnect between god allowing something and us using suffering for redemptive purposes and calling something good or holy. That is the lie that even some faithful Catholics don’t quite see. The inclination to sodomy is not a holy thing. God does not “gift” evil. God does not gift a dead baby to a couple…
Being a homosexual is not evil. The act is, however. If child is born homosexual- it’s not a choice they made for themselves. I agree the word “gift” wasnt the best choice of words- what I should have said Is that it’s something God allowed. It’s perhaps something saw fit to challenge that person with? I don’t know- it’s the only thing that makes any sense to me. This way of thinking helps me understand what is happening to me- it helps it all make a bit more sense
It isn’t “evil” as in personal evil. But it is unholy. It is a disorder and all disorder is brought in Fallen world through sin. So while having those tendencies might not be a personal culpable “evil” the mere fact if it’s existence is evil in one way the same way cancer is evil…
I have a hard time swallowing that. Maybe i’m wrong, and if I am, I pray that it will become more clear to me. We as humans are all searching for love- constantly. Love from our parents, from our peers, from our families. Our need for love, and how we love, makes up the biggest part of ourselves. That need for love translates to our need for God- which is Love in it’s purest state. That’s why a pwrson that doesn’t know God can never truly be happy. There will always be skmething missing to them. To say that homosexuality is evil would basically amount to saying the biggest most important part of a person is evil. People aren’t evil- God doesn’t create anything evil. Satan is evil- he is the deceiver- the one responsible for the evil acts people do.
Maybe, just maybe, God has a divine plan for everyone. Maybe homosexuality is a person’s call to a chaste life- one that draws him more closely to God.
That might be a pleasant way to look at it but it lacks theological form. Homosexuality is not holy. That is a lie.
Has it ever been scientifically proven what causes homosexuality?
Have scientists found a common gene to show that it is genetic?
Is it caused by excessive female or male hormones in a mother’s uterus?
Is it caused by experiences as a young child?
Perhaps a combination of the above?
I have never heard there has been proof of the cause.
I would never say homosexuality is holy, I completely agree with you. I just think that since there a clear cut cases showing people are born that way means God has allowed it to happen for some reason. Not created it- but allowed it. Just as with a child being stillborn- does it mean God willed it? No, he doesn’t want to see our suffering, but he allows for it because it may be for the greater good (whether we understand it in this life or not). God allows things to happen, he allows Satan to corrupt because he hopes we’ll find a way through it. Homosexuality, I believe, is a great test. Just like the rest of us are tested in other ways. We choose how we want to get through it- with God, or without
Yes God allows suffering. Death. Evil and sin. And all of that can be turned into His glory. Or it can decay and destroy. The cross of homosexuality is light compared to some. But that does not mean that it is a holy disorder for no disorder is holy.
Again- I’m sorry- the use of the word genetic may not have been the best choice for what I was trying to convey. I simply meant that some people are born homosexual.