Why are catholic schools in south more than those in north?


#1

I am talking parish schools here. As a general rule, I see a trend…catholic schools up north are cheaper. And, they give multi-kid discounts more often. The schools up north don’t have more religious to work for free, and many have less $$$ in weekly collection. So how are they cheaper? I have called 100’s of schools in north and south, and this is the trend I see…We moved to the north just so that we can afford to send ALL of our kids to Catholic school. We simply cannot afford most southern catholic schools. Anyone know why Southern schools are so much pricier? I would love to live in the South, but with 4 kids, we need a multi kid discount and cheaper tuition…


#2

[quote="AP4Him, post:1, topic:203695"]
I am talking parish schools here. As a general rule, I see a trend...catholic schools up north are cheaper. And, they give multi-kid discounts more often. The schools up north don't have more religious to work for free, and many have less $$$ in weekly collection. So how are they cheaper? I have called 100's of schools in north and south, and this is the trend I see...We moved to the north just so that we can afford to send ALL of our kids to Catholic school. We simply cannot afford most southern catholic schools. Anyone know why Southern schools are so much pricier? I would love to live in the South, but with 4 kids, we need a multi kid discount and cheaper tuition...

[/quote]

Perhaps it's just the place you're looking? Also, New York/Penn/New England and even down a bit farther has a long-standing catholic heritage...and often REALLY good public schools. (I'm not saying everywhere). The south didn't have as many Catholics, is more rural and schooling down there is often much poorer. Not that "degrees" have much to do with it, but in the north you can't even THINK of teaching anything higher than Kindergarden without a Masters. I've heard of Highschools in the south that let teachers teach with Associates.

And if local schools are poor...that drives up the cost of "competing" schools dramatically.


#3

[quote="AP4Him, post:1, topic:203695"]
The schools up north don't have more religious to work for free, and many have less $$$ in weekly collection. ...

[/quote]

I don't believe that religious work for free in schools :shrug:


#4

[quote="AP4Him, post:1, topic:203695"]
I am talking parish schools here. As a general rule, I see a trend...catholic schools up north are cheaper.

[/quote]

One possibility: Catholics are leaving the North in droves, and coming South. Thus, southern Catholic schools are seeing a surge in applicants, and can thus up their prices. Northern Catholic schools are losing applicants, so they have to charge less in order to compete.

Of course, I'm guessing here.:rolleyes:


#5

[quote="purplesunshine, post:2, topic:203695"]

And if local schools are poor...that drives up the cost of "competing" schools dramatically.

[/quote]

Good point.

[quote="JustAnotherThou, post:3, topic:203695"]
I don't believe that religious work for free in schools :shrug:

[/quote]

I don't think they get paid like regular teachers do, with full benefits too boot. I assume that alot of their pay is from their order, not the school or parish. I don't know for sure. I have heard people say that Catholic schools used to be cheaper because the religious orders donated more of their time for little or no cost, as their mission.


#6

As one of the few Southerners left in Atlanta, I simply have to make a point on this one. In most communities in the South, the number one denomination is Baptist with Methodist sometimes leading. Catholics have always been few and far between and have little infrastructure.

The Church in the South does not have the long-term endowments that help drive down the cost of education. Now that we have droves of people pouring in, the money isn't. My parish did not exist fifteen years ago and now it has over 3,000 families.

Even though the transplants are often professional people, they don't seem to be donating heavily to our parish. The financial statements show it is often just scraping by, even though we are in an area that is all middle class to upper incomes. Perhaps it is the economy, but there seems to be little in the way of a cushion in the parish budget. Setting up an endowment fund and getting a real network of schools is something that the Church simply cannot afford now.


#7

We live in a deep south coastal community with more Catholics than in other parts of the state. Both of our girls went to Catholic elementary and high school, with tuition that I thought was reasonable for the good education they received.

Our parish school offers discounts for multiple students in a family (though not as deep as they used to be, as it costs no less to educate the second, third, or additional children) and the rate for parish families who donate at least $100/month is considerably less than for non-"tithers" and non-Catholics.

The figures for the parish elementary school:

For "tithing" parishioners: $2660/1 child, $4650/2 children, $5970 for 3 or more children.

Non-tithing: $5130/1, $8990/2, $11,570/3+

Non-Catholics: $5360/1, $9390/2, $12080/3. There is an additional $2670/child for each non-Catholic child above 3 in a family.

This is a National Blue Ribbon School with excellent academics.

I'll try to find the current tuition at our excellent Catholic High School, for comparison's sake.


#8

And what is even worse... we make a whole lot less money in the South. I have been at Head Start for 8 years and I make less than my cousin in PA working in fast food.... there is no way i could afford Catholic schooling for my kids if we had one nearby.....

I think the reason that the schools cost more is because there are a lot less Catholics here. Also, one reason a lot of "transplanted Catholics" don't contribute as much is because they know that they will not be here long before they move again. I was told this by a few people in my 250 family Parish....


#9

The school in the DC area I went to was an independent school run by Opus Dei. When I was there, lower school (grades 3-6) cost around 11,000 a year per child. Middle School was around 12,000. High school was 15,000. As of today 5 years later, lower school is 18,000. Middle school is 19,000 and high school is 20,000 a year per child. Some consider this area to be the north and others consider it to be the south. We just call it Mid Atlantic.


#10

[quote="dixieagle, post:7, topic:203695"]
We live in a deep south coastal community with more Catholics than in other parts of the state. Both of our girls went to Catholic elementary and high school, with tuition that I thought was reasonable for the good education they received.

Our parish school offers discounts for multiple students in a family (though not as deep as they used to be, as it costs no less to educate the second, third, or additional children) and the rate for parish families who donate at least $100/month is considerably less than for non-"tithers" and non-Catholics.

The figures for the parish elementary school:

For "tithing" parishioners: $2660/1 child, $4650/2 children, $5970 for 3 or more children.

Non-tithing: $5130/1, $8990/2, $11,570/3+

Non-Catholics: $5360/1, $9390/2, $12080/3. There is an additional $2670/child for each non-Catholic child above 3 in a family.

This is a National Blue Ribbon School with excellent academics.

I'll try to find the current tuition at our excellent Catholic High School, for comparison's sake.

[/quote]

That is affordable!
I have found that communities with a higher % of catholics have cheaper tuition. I am actually eyeing a few coastal communities for that reason. ;) But...these schools are in the minority in the South. :( Most schools I am looking at are close to 6,000 per kid, no multi disc. :eek:

And, I do agree that it does not cost any less to educate additional kids, but...these are Catholic schools. If I had 1 or 2 kids, this would be a non-issue. But, as practicing Catholics, we have 4 and will most likely have more, even if we use NFP. It is kind of upsetting...the Catholic church says to be open to life, not use NFP contraceptively, and they also tell us we must provide a Catholic education for our kids...but...then the tuition is so high most places, without a multi-kid discount, families like mine will either have to forego a catholic education or break the rules and limit family size. :( Having a multi kid disc makes sense with Catholic teaching imo. When you don't have one, it sends a bad message(Catholic school is only for families that have few kids or the rich). :( And, if you look at enrollment, that message seems to have been heard. We have moved around a bit, so I have been at a few schools and parishes, and I have yet to find a Catholic school that has a family of more than 5. Bigger families attend the parish...they homeschool though...

[quote="Georgia, post:6, topic:203695"]
As one of the few Southerners left in Atlanta, I simply have to make a point on this one. In most communities in the South, the number one denomination is Baptist with Methodist sometimes leading. Catholics have always been few and far between and have little infrastructure.

The Church in the South does not have the long-term endowments that help drive down the cost of education. Now that we have droves of people pouring in, the money isn't. My parish did not exist fifteen years ago and now it has over 3,000 families.

Even though the transplants are often professional people, they don't seem to be donating heavily to our parish. The financial statements show it is often just scraping by, even though we are in an area that is all middle class to upper incomes. Perhaps it is the economy, but there seems to be little in the way of a cushion in the parish budget. Setting up an endowment fund and getting a real network of schools is something that the Church simply cannot afford now.

[/quote]

I grew up in ATL. I hear ya...I do think there is something to the endowment thing, makes sense.


#11

West Michigan:

We pay $3200 a year for grade school K-8 (tithing Catholic rate)
$5000 for Non-Tithing

Our High School rate is about $7000 per year.
:)


#12

[quote="Dj87, post:11, topic:203695"]
West Michigan:

We pay $3200 a year for grade school K-8 (tithing Catholic rate)
$5000 for Non-Tithing

Our High School rate is about $7000 per year.
:)

[/quote]

That is the average I have found, nearly to the number. ;)

Most Northern schools are around 3,000(maybe a little more or less), and the highschools keep it under 10,000.

Here, in Central PA, we pay 2800.00 for elem, and the highschool is around 7,000. In TN, we paid 5800.00 for elem.

Most southern schools I have looked into are 5,000 or more, and the high schools are 10,000 or more. :( I find the biggest jump is the highscools.


#13

Oh, and I have to admit to be a little annoyed with several of these schools acting like I am a dirt bag for asking about a multi kid discount. Most assume I don’t tithe, mentioning that. We do, full 10%. We are just trying to find a southern school where we can afford to still do that with paying tuition as well. :rolleyes:


#14

[quote="AP4Him, post:1, topic:203695"]
I am talking parish schools here. As a general rule, I see a trend...catholic schools up north are cheaper. And, they give multi-kid discounts more often. The schools up north don't have more religious to work for free, and many have less $$$ in weekly collection. So how are they cheaper? I have called 100's of schools in north and south, and this is the trend I see...We moved to the north just so that we can afford to send ALL of our kids to Catholic school. We simply cannot afford most southern catholic schools. Anyone know why Southern schools are so much pricier? I would love to live in the South, but with 4 kids, we need a multi kid discount and cheaper tuition...

[/quote]

you would have to be more specific about area and cost of CAtholic school tuition. I have 9 grandchildren and numerous other young relatives in a dozen Catholic schools in several states. Tuition ranges from $3500 in one PA regional school, to $7000 for DGS in kinder in NC, to $14000 for HS in Ohio per year. Two families belong to parishes who tithe and pay nothing for tuition in the schools that serves their parish clusters. My guess also is that schools in traditionally "Catholic" states or metro areas are already established and still supported if not staffed by their founding religious orders, and have a base of "alumni" and a parish culture that supports Catholic education in general. Whereas in the south where the Catholic population is growing, but still proportionately smaller, the schools are newer, still in the expensive building and expansion stage, and there is a less broad existing Catholic population to support them. You are aware that most Catholic schools receive more than half their support from sources other than tuition.


#15

South Dakota;
Our Blue Ribbon Catholic High School is less than $4,000 for Catholics registered to a city parish. Elementary is around $2600 They offer a multi child discount, in addition to a cash discount. Try the Midwest, we have lots of room!:)


#16

[quote="purplesunshine, post:2, topic:203695"]
Perhaps it's just the place you're looking? Also, New York/Penn/New England and even down a bit farther has a long-standing catholic heritage...and often REALLY good public schools. (I'm not saying everywhere). The south didn't have as many Catholics, is more rural and schooling down there is often much poorer. Not that "degrees" have much to do with it, but in the north you can't even THINK of teaching anything higher than Kindergarden without a Masters. I've heard of Highschools in the south that let teachers teach with Associates.
And if local schools are poor...that drives up the cost of "competing" schools dramatically.

[/quote]

Ahh, yes, the Southerns are idiots myth... For starters, I have relatives who teach high school in the state of New Jersey without Masters Degrees. Secondly, all states (even in the South :eek:) require a Bachelor's degree for teacher certification as mandated by the Federal NCLB law. Private schools of course can choose to use non-certified teachers, but that is the case in any state.


#17

[quote="mini_me640, post:16, topic:203695"]
Ahh, yes, the Southerns are idiots myth... For starters, I have relatives who teach high school in the state of New Jersey without Masters Degrees. Secondly, all states (even in the South :eek:) require a Bachelor's degree for teacher certification as mandated by the Federal NCLB law. Private schools of course can choose to use non-certified teachers, but that is the case in any state.

[/quote]

I didn't say all southerners are idiots. The education of their teachers, however, is NOT as high. They also don't have the set ups that they do in the northern states, have problems with more rural areas (rural areas require more money simply to bus). They also, again, tend to have schools that don't perform as well. And even town by town, if a public school isn't good the price of a Catholic or any private school is driven up astronomically. Some southern states are doing well in educational testing, but traditionally, this is NOT the case.

I just happen to live in New York/New England with MANY teacher friends (and family). You don't need a master's to teach in any private school, however, in NY and MA (and CT?) you need one to maintain your teacher's license. The next strictest state is California. Many of my friends from college who couldn't afford to get their master's moved south so they could teach without one.

And quite frankly the NCLB is often ignored.


#18

[quote="AP4Him, post:12, topic:203695"]
That is the average I have found, nearly to the number. ;)

Most Northern schools are around 3,000(maybe a little more or less), and the highschools keep it under 10,000.

Here, in Central PA, we pay 2800.00 for elem, and the highschool is around 7,000. In TN, we paid 5800.00 for elem.

Most southern schools I have looked into are 5,000 or more, and the high schools are 10,000 or more. :( I find the biggest jump is the highscools.

[/quote]

I think you have to be careful with comparing Catholic schools across the board in the North AND in the South. Some Catholic schools here in PA are associated with the Diocese, some are independent and cost more. My daughter's school was $2800 including a $500 fundraising responsibility. Here, the parishes are prohibited from fully funding a parish school, 35% of the expenses for running a parish school must come from fundraising. A parish can not financially support a school if it would become a financial burden for the parish. I don't know how it works in the south, how they are required to fund their schools, that may be making a difference in the tuition fees you are encountering. I have friends in the midwest that can send their children to their parish school tuition free as long as they are members of the parish in good standing and are current in their weekly tithe offerings. But you may be in a situation that is a bit like comparing apples to oranges just because of the way some dioceses require funding for their schools.


#19

[quote="AP4Him, post:1, topic:203695"]
I am talking parish schools here. As a general rule, I see a trend...catholic schools up north are cheaper. And, they give multi-kid discounts more often. The schools up north don't have more religious to work for free, and many have less $$$ in weekly collection. So how are they cheaper? I have called 100's of schools in north and south, and this is the trend I see...We moved to the north just so that we can afford to send ALL of our kids to Catholic school. We simply cannot afford most southern catholic schools. Anyone know why Southern schools are so much pricier? I would love to live in the South, but with 4 kids, we need a multi kid discount and cheaper tuition...

[/quote]

Economics.

The public schools up North tend to be good, and there is less incentive for people to chose Catholic schools, therefore the schools don't charge as much in order to help keep enrollment up.

In the South, the schools are absolute **** (in general) and the Catholic schools can charge more for their product.

In the South, there is a racial basis to it as well. Catholic schools in Baton Rouge are about 95% white. Public schools are about 70% black. Whites will pay top dollar for the privilege not having their kids associate with a black.


#20

We're in FL...
"Catholic" tuition rate (requires Mass attendance and volunteering in parish life) is $5500/child/year - NO mulit-child discount (unless there's a financial need, then you can go through a financial evaluation and receive some assistance).
The "Non-Catholic" rate is in the $7-8K range (I'm not sure??? - we're Catholic ;))...

Our local public schools are fabulous - so it's not a reason of education or class that we chose to go to the Catholic School... just for the additional religious foundation on what we have at home.


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