I am in a debate with a cousin who is Catholic but obviously does not adhere to Her teachings on homosexuality. He posed me with said question.
Jesus said: “But the things which proceed out of the mouth, come forth from the heart, and those things defile a man. For from the heart come forth evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false testimonies, blasphemies. These are the things that defile a man.” (Matt. 15:17-20)
So fornication “defiles” a man. And fornication is the use of the sexual faculty outside of marriage. What, then, is marriage?
Jesus again: “Who answering, said to them: Have ye not read, that he who made man from the beginning, Made them male and female? And he said: For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife, and they two shall be in one flesh.” (Matt. 19:4-5)
So marriage exists precisely because God made humankind as man and woman, with sexual complementarity, which marriage unites in the service of its intended end: the creation of new life. Hence “marriage” between any other combination of sexes is impossible.
God knew what he was doing when he designed us after all, and he designed us as sexual beings for procreation, which is definitionally impossible where there is not sexual complementarity.
So sex outside of marriage is bad, and marriage is the union of man and woman. QED.
This will sound controversial and hard to understand, but think…
God created this creation, and us humans to have experiences. God lives vicariously through all creation, and man, each and every one of us. Jesus said, “as often as you did it to one of these the least of my brethren, you did it to me ". We are striving to become the perfect image and likeness of God, we once were. Baptism divinizes us, and we are to strive to be transformed into Christ, as perfectly as we can. To the point even, when like St Paul, we hope to say, perhaps hope “it is no longer I that lives, but Christ lives in me ".
We are like little mini versions of God, if you will permit me to say this oversimplified example. What we do God considers Himself doing. So all unnaturalness is out. Gods Will is Nature, and expressed through nature.
Man and Woman constitute the natural union where sex applies of such a nature. If we try to turn God into a homosexual, or try to make God live homosexuality through us vicariously, then this is a supreme blasphemy, and terrible crime against God.
This is my own opinion why God condemns homosexuality. We have a lot more of God in our lives than we realize perhaps. And we have more influence than we imagine, with God. Take care never to offend God.
This is why we need to always strive to do Gods Will perfectly. There is a lot we don’t yet understand. If in doubt, better safe than sorry. It affects and effects God very much, what we do.
Look at a Crucifix for one example dear friend. Hope this helps with the debate. My opine, could be right, wrong, or a bit of both. Best be safe though, if you want Heaven as I see it…
Blessings & peace:thumbsup:
Thanks for the answers! I’m still having trouble trying to formulate an argument for why God finds homosexual acts offensive.
I think it’s simply a matter of intention. Just as how conjugal relations were meant for being unitative and procreative, to do otherwise than what God intended (such as using contraception) is a perversion of what God intended.
Likewise, biologically it’s pretty obvious that man and woman come together. Also, from Jesus’ teachings, that God made man and woman to be one flesh, we know that God intended that conjugal relations are meant within marriage, and marriage can only occur between a man and woman. Sacramentally to what God binds as a marriage, a homosexual marriage cannot occur and the partners involved would only be lying to themselves that it is a marriage. Since homosexual partners cannot get married, then any sexual act would be fornication (and an abomination since the sexual act is perverted from what God intended).
Sin leads to death. He knows how we’re made.
Having an opinion against a law often leads to violating it. At the root of the problem is questioning and needing a ‘reason’ for why the law is justified.
The bounds of morality today have been pushed by civil rights. Those who need justification against morality(they categorically reject) try to use the civil right to equate and destroy these distinctions. In their minds, it is through reasoning that traditional and moral beliefs can be changed to conform to their liking. The underlying flaw though in their reasoning, is the presupposition that two unlike things are equal or are made equal by the civil right.
Yes, a man is equal to a woman, all races enjoy equality before God . Distinction and equality though are two different matters. To humanists they are either the same, or it should not matter. To God it does matter. The natural law is at the heart of why God deems homosexual acts as immoral and why the Church sees homosexuality as inherently dysfunctional. .
Take any moral law forbidden by God. Committing murder, adultery, stealing etc Why would that offend God? Why would we need to be forgiven and why would we need to repent for these acts? Jesus was asked about divorce, he gave his answer as to why it was forbidden. Most of his answers on morality did not come with a reason, many were woven into parables. Man needs a reason for a law, God does not. God is the law, he makes them, and God is above the law, and above man. Reasoning and thinking are great things, but man can use reasoning to reject any law, (civil or natural) to conform to his liking. Even if this liking is against Gods commandments. All the bad fruits of the social revelation revolved around this fundamental belief that morality was bounded only by man, and not God. Man blundered yet again like the Garden.
No social issue better describes this than gay marriage. The humanists first base all their reasoning and justification on a civil right and civil law instead of the moral law. It is because the moral and natural law are the barriers that restrict them from committing acts that are deemed immoral and unnatural.
You can believe with absolutely certainty that the Kingdom of Heaven will have no civil rights, it will not be a Democracy, you will not be able to plead your case. Reasoning will be fruitless and will not exist there. As a reasonable person, my best answer to your question is that it’s because it violates Gods law. You are given the free will to abide or violate Gods laws, but your judgement will also be by your own choosing, not Gods.
It is not that God is offended. This is just language we use, to explain the unexplainable, in simple human terms. Apart from what I have said, the real concern is if you go against nature, you are unnatural; the unfortunate reality of it is you cease to exist. You become like a phantom or ghost-like thing that is no longer really real. Outside nature you are outside your normal existence, and hence you do not even exist. When you do not exist, if you stay this way, you end up in a state of non-existence, namely hell.
Hell is not just the deprivation of the Blessed Vision of and enjoyment of God, and the whole company of Heaven. It is a place where Love does not exist, and only evil sort of exists. Evil and hell is a different sort of existence, it is a nothingness non-existence type state and place.
Reality = Love = Truth, you can alternate these however you like. In order to be Reality, you must be Truth and Love. Outside any of these you are non-reality, untruth or lie, and evil or nothingness.
It is only an illusion man can go against Gods Will which in our world is just nature, and Gods will is expressed by and through nature. In a sense God= Nature ( hard to understand though, a bit mysterious ).
The consequences of one slightest sin or denial of Gods Will is that you would be completely destroyed straight away. But God protects all from these horrible consequences, even satanists are protected from sin, evil, vice and the like here and now to an extraordinary degree. If God did not protect us, all sinners, we would be mincemeat, and gone. None of us would make it to Heaven, even purgatory.
Without Gods magnanimous extraordinarily gratuitous gift of so much protection from sin, which is really only our personal attempt at self-destruction (not to mention everyone and everything else) the world would have been obliterated the instant Eve failed with that original sin, and any who lived among us, if there could be another, could expect an eternity like you see in the Life Of Jesus, in the Passion of the Christ movie.
In effect this is one big reason Jesus suffered so much. It is not just that God is so called offended; in many ways of course we think what diff would a sin make to God, but we destroy ourselves, others, our world. And in the end it probably does harm God too. Look at that Mel Gibson classic I just mentioned.
People just believe what they want to believe in the end though. Sometimes they have to learn lessons, life lessons, as they journey through life. St Francis of Assisi was a town drunkard and womaniser before he got his oh so high calling from God, and transformed as we know. There are many stories like this.
We can just hope and pray we at least have the grace of a happy death. Sin destroys us and all. Point blank. We just get more chances until we meet God. And when we come for judgement, we will be like infinity years old very wise men, which must judge ourselves truly, and condemn or reward ourselves, in Truth, no lies. In reality, not non-reality. In Love, not evil.
Hope this helps, but you can argue til the cows come home. Some people just need time to understand and appreciate higher Truths, they need time to gather their thoughts and reconcile them in their own minds. And they need humility, to be open. Even if the Truth seems against them. Trust and obedience to a Higher Power God. Even if we don’t understand we need to accept the struggles and sacrifices required here for the hereafter. All will be known later.
This whole life is a test since the fall. By our choice, and we chose this, you cannot choose your parents, and Adam and Eve chose wrong, and we are stuck with it for now, God prods and provokes us in mysterious ways to test us to see if we will remain faithful to Him, and Love Him. Read the Book of Job for an example. Just my thoughts. May be right, wrong or a mix…
Is this more useful to your friend, dear friend?
Blessings & peace:)
Sin is a turning away from God. God is Love. His love designed nature the way it did. To do something unnatural like homosexual behavior shows a turning from God’s plan… Which hurts them because they will seek love in the flesh where they will not find it which is why the bible warns against it. And John above me is totally spot on. Thank you John that really helped me understand some ideas i was struggling with
Because the anus was made for #2 only
Wow that was unexpected after scrolling through all those essay posts on my phone. Picking self up off of floor now… crass but so funny.
Regardless of the accuracy of your statement, comments like these are not helpful :shrug:. First of all, they contribute to the feeling that people just ignore lesbians, which contributes to the belief that people oppose homosexuality because they get grossed out by gay men. Secondly, not all gay men (maybe even less than half) actually ever engage in anal sex, so it’s largely a non-sequitur, even if you did focus only on gay men. And finally, it (as the above poster said) is very crass. It doesn’t really give any information – it’s more of a soundbite or tagline than anything, and not a good one at that.
Well many people, including Catholics are beginning to believe that homosexual acts are NOT offensive to God. I know a Gay couple who has been together 30 years. They kiss and hold hands in public to express their love. It’s couples like this who are changing people’s minds about Gay Marriage and homosexuality as a whole.
I just can’t believe God is upset at these two people who love each other very much and choose to be together, mind body and soul.
This is why the debate and opinions are shifting.
Sorry for the crassness. But I should have expanded on my thought…there’s a deep philosophical reasoning behind my statement. In short, human actions are geared toward certain end results. Any other result is a perversion or a disorder should the action not correspond to the natural outcome.
First, some enduring words of Catholic wisdom:
“If you don’t behave as you believe, you will end by believing as you behave.”
― Fulton J. Sheen
The Catholic teaching on homosexuality was never an open ended debate. Polls, public sentiment, and civil laws will never change the truths revealed from the very words of God, even if the majority of individuals choose to reject Gods laws.
Granted, there are many disciplines and beliefs in Catholicism that can be changed. There is no gray area though when it comes to homosexual acts. And I want to emphasize the words 'homosexual acts. It’s not relevant whether some Catholics believe it to be acceptable. That does not change the underlying teaching revealed in Gods very word.
Even the love between two individuals, and that includes heterosexuals, is not greater than the love for God.
Well I do agree that philosophical order is geared one way. I’m glad you understand my concerns with your original statement though. We agree on the general principle; it’s just that one of my big passions is trying to bring the two communities (Catholic & LGBT) together more so they see that there isn’t actually that much different between them, so I’m sensitive to what language people use (on both sides).
Thank you for posting a clarification post
Some more enduring words:
“All you need is love” - John Lennon
“Who am I to judge” - Pope Francis
Here’s more from your icon and the atheistic creed of a generation:
“Imagine there’s no heaven
It’s easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today.”. - John Lennon
You could live for today, but just as easily die tomorrow. I don’t imagine John would want to imagine there’s no heaven, perhaps no hell below, but no heaven? I doubt it.
As for the Holy Father. He’s 100% correct and is consistent with how the Church deems all matters of faith and morals. We don’t judge or condemn the individual, just their actions.
Imagine isn’t about bashing religion, it’s
about imagining and believing in a world of peace and love. To look beyond borders,
religion, greed, and hunger, and
to dream, and do
become a dreamer.
I hope someday you’ll join us,
and the world will live as one.
What is there not to understand? God made man male and female, with complementary reproductive systems ordered toward procreation. Homosexual acts deliberately thwart that design in the service of an inferior good, pleasure. Deliberately thwarting God’s designs is the definition of sin.