It is indeed obvious. People outside the Church (and, sad to say, many inside it) generally find a way to do what they want to do. People who want to be practicing homosexuals and go to church, can always find a “gay-friendly” church, such as the mainline Episcopal church.
I do not advocate, and never will advocate, anyone — anyone — following any other morality than traditional, orthodox Catholic morality. One true Church, one true Faith, one true morality.
That’s part of my point. What is the definition of a child and how is sexual maturity established? I ask the same question.
Since there is no solid answer to this, it means it could be be quite easy for some people to argue for sexual relations between an adult and a child to be considered acceptable. All you have to do is say that the 12-year old is officially mature enough to be considered an adult.
It really isn’t obvious outside of religious morality, that homosexual acts are bad. It’s obvious it’s different than heterosexual acts but Not that there is anything wrong with it. Just as it is natural for a heterosexual to seek a heterosexual relationship, it is natural for a homosexual to seek a homosexual relationship.
I would disagree. Murder is obviously bad and one definitely does not need Revelation to discern that. Even pagan civilizations held this and punished people for unjust murder. It’s because it harms another and also leads to death. It is just part of human nature to understand hurting another unjustly is wrong especially if it leads to their death
Even the Catholic Church teaches that the Ten Commandments are part of natural law which means everyone instinctively would know that things like killing or stealing or idolatry are wrong
Considering that homosexuality has been around forever in mankind and that it is natural for people to seek romantic and sexual partners, I’d say it’s only natural that they seek a partner that they are attracted to.
I think you can argue for a natural-law objection to homosexuality. Without getting too graphic, the bodies aren’t made for it. Also, it is entirely possible that Almighty God forbade such activity — both for single-sex couples and for heterosexual couples — because the human race would die out if everyone substituted the unnatural use for the natural use. Put another way, it could be seen as a type of contraception.
I’m not sure everyone would “instinctively know” all these things are wrong.
Many cultures throughout the world have a concept of “honor killing”, and even the reaction of many Americans to the execution of capital criminals — “fry, sucker, yee-hah!” — shows that this instinct is not confined to non-Christian cultures. Certain subcultures think it is all right to steal from or swindle people outside their subculture — in their minds, “the gullible were put on this earth for the purpose of being gulled”. And ancient people, who were certainly under the natural law, in that they were human beings, evidently didn’t get the memo, because they made idols and worshiped them without giving it a second thought.
Even if capital punishment were admissible in modern human society — let’s say that society broke down to the point that there were no other way to punish capital criminals, no way to confine them, no way to attempt to rehabilitate them — it would be the Catholic instinct to carry out this punishment mournfully, regretfully, and somberly, certainly with no “celebration factor” or exuberant glee from the crowd assembled that the convicted criminal had paid with their life. Praying for the criminal’s soul and salvation would be more like it.
I understand what you are arguing (I think). You are as repulsed by homosexuality as you are by pedophillia. Part of the problem is a category error. While both are sexual acts or lead to them, pedophillia is an actual mental illness while homosexuality isn’t. It used to be thought as such but numerous studies showed that most homosexuals displayed no other symptoms of mental illness other than being homosexual. This was further reinforced when the homosexuals with a mental illness as well, it was often due to the societal pressures regarding their sexuality…the shaming, aggression, etc. against them.
Pedophillia, however is an expression of a mental illness. These tend to be mostly men that have an arrested development leading to inability to have a normal sexual maturity.
It’s true that each society develops rules regarding when a child is mature. In some sects of Islam an older male marrying a young girl could be seen as pedophillia by others but even they place some age limits on their age. We just don’t agree with it. Real pedophillia often isn’t so much about the sexual dimension as it is about a power position. The power over a child is expressed sexually. We can easily see how this scenario is different than a homosexual relationship. However a society defines maturity in a child, they all consider pedophillia a crime. It isn’t a relationship except in the mind of the pedophilliac. Homosexuals develop true relationships with their partners on an equal basis. They may both be considered icky by some but they aren’t the same.
I wouldn’t be so quick to trust studies. I can’t remember the saying, but I heard one along the lines of you always being able to find professors/experts to do a study giving you the results you need. That’s why in so many cases, one study reaches one conclusion, while another on the same topic reaches the opposite conclusion.
Even though I am skeptical of studies in these fields, as I just stated above, I would be interested to a link or two with the studies supposedly proving pedaphilia is an ilness. Out of curiosity.
But what say out about a child who is physically and mentally mature enough to consider it a relationship? As discussed earlier, some children know an awful lot about sex at a very early age and some are more mature than adults.
While I agree that one can find a study in favor of any view, there are now numerous studies showing that homosexuals are mentally healthy and those that aren’t is due to childhood trauma, societal factors relating to ones homosexuality or chemical imbalances that effect all people regardless of sexuality.
I retired 3years ago and no longer have my hospital login for access to JAMA and other medical research. They are all behind paywalls now. Doing a google search can often bring up a synopsis or introduction. There are also various articles on the research but you have to do some digging. I used to read the research quite a bit when I had a close friend that was homosexual as I wanted to understand it. He was very normal, by the way. Loving parents that accepted him, no childhood traumas and was unidentifiable as a homosexual unless he told you…meaning he wasn’t effeminate or flamboyant as they are often assumed. He later was married to his partner and last I heard, still married and happy. These types are seldom known or heard about as they just quietly live their lives. AFAIK, he never got involved in LBGTQ activities.
What age would that be? We don’t judge maturity purely on sexual maturity. We include mentally as well. We know the brain doesn’t finish maturing until about age 17-21. Some even later. For any relationship to be considered a mature one…even a friendship…all qualifications need to be met. Many girls are physically mature at 12 but we certainly don’t consider them mentally mature.