WHY are you NOT a Catholic?


#225

My friend, thank you for posting in reply to my OP’s question.

The NEW space restrictions are woefully inadequate for serious apologetics; more so when multiple concerns are expressed

May I ask WHAT brings you to CAF?

WHAT precisely has the RCC changed on Her Morals Teaching?

And exactly WHAT Dogma has She Changed as you charge? As a Catholic-catechist,

I am unaware of either being the case.

As to the perpetuity of the papal office being “outright false” …on what specific calm do you ground this claim?

I’ve been teaching, sharing, explaining and defending when necessary my Catholic Faith for nearly 30 years. In that time I have never heard of the charge that the RCC is “indefectible”; indeed I find the charge to be a bit strange. After all we are some 2,000 years old and continuing despite near constant attacks of one sort of another, both from within Judas to our present challenges, and from without. Islam for example

Islam dates from 610AD [“AD” standing for After [Christ] Death

Here is the List of ALL Popes & their dates of service:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12272b.htm

& Liber Pontificalis [the history of the Popes]

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09224a.htm

Tthere is another issue here and that is the Bishops, and the Catholic Magisterium. The Pope is considered to be “the first Bishop among ‘equals‘ ” as was Peter:

Eph. 2: 19-21 “So then you are no longer strangers and sojourners, but you are fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus himself being the cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord” & Mt 18: 18 where Christ extends the authority of the other Apostles: Mt 15:18-19, Mt 18:18 And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it” I will give YOU the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." …Matt.18:18 Truly, I say YOU whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven [READ verses 1-17 also]

Reply continues on next post


#226

REPLY Cont.

As you point out the Church does not simply fold and disappear when ANY Pope dies. The Bishops take over Her governance in the interim, as was anticipated and planed for.

The MAGISTERIUM & Tradition

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15006b.htm

When a Pope dies the RCC is A Church without The head; NOT “a head” as you seem to think.

Is there not a head Iman? What happens when he dies?

The RCC is Organic & Pragmatic. There was as ought to be expected an evolution of thought on how the new-pope was to be named.

http://www.cuf.org/2002/11/pillar-and-bulwark-of-the-truth-the-infallibility-magisterium-of-the-catholic-church/

I have seen other list which do show some short periods without a Pope. I tend to accept the unbroken list of the Catholic encyclopedia as it is OUR history, and therefore the records are reasonably more accurate.

Also you miss understand the term “immediate”; in our understanding it means not “right away”; but when duly elected or appointed.

PLEASE SEE NEXT REPLY


#227

CONTINUED FROM PREVIOUS REPLY

[QUOTE]Another issue is that of the Trinity and Incarnation. I understand, that using our reason alone, we could only know about God in general, and not in detail; but how could doctrines which blatantly conflict with what is necessarily known about God in general be considered valid details about God? Not only that, there is no way to distinguish between a true Prophet and a false prophet in Catholicism; the good life and such are not necessary for prophecy according to the church’s theologians.[/QUOTE]

My friend, you’re asking more questions than space permits a response to. Please consider asking only 1 of 2 questions at a time so that we can respond to you
FRIEND, I am compelled to ask by what authority do YOU make these claims? You obviously have at best a shallow understanding of the Church & Her God granted & PROTECTED authority, and the exercise of it.

As for our knowledge of GOD:

Isa. 55: 7-8 “For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, says the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thought”
Your lack of understanding of the Power & Authority granted to Peter & his successors is profoundly inadequate

Mt 10:1-2 and he [CHRIST] called to him his twelve disciples and gave them authority over unclean spirits, to cast them out, and to heal every disease and every infirmity. The names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zeb’edee, and John his brother…

Mt 16: 18-19 “And I tell YOU, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give YOU the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever YOU bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever YOU loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."

CONTINUED ON NEXT REPLY


#228

REPLY CONTINUED

It is the literally unlimited POWER & authority of the key’s that your lacking right understanding. At that time and place Caesarea Philippi, where the region’s largest pagan temple was located, God passed on to Peter all that was necessary for total unlimited GOVERNANCE of the NEW FAITH He came to earth to establish. At that time & place walled in cities like Jerusalem were common; they did gave gates & key’s and as the NORM, a KING. That king would appoint a visar to whom HE GRANTED unlimited governance of the cities day- to- day affairs ANSWERABLE only to the KING. That is precisely what Christ envisioned for Perter and his successors. And WHY there was no opposition to this empowerment.

To bind and to loose meant at that time, the unfettered authority to make and recind laws, regulations & even mandate beliefs.

Jn. 17:17-20 “Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth. As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth. [NO OTHER FAIH CAN MAKE THE CLAIM & PROVE IT TO HAVE GOD AS THE WARRANTY OF HER INFALLIBILITY OF TEACHINGS TRUTH ALONE ONN ALL MATTERS OF FAITH & MORALS] "I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word”

Mt 28:19-20 “[YOU] Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded YOU; and lo, I am with YOU always, to the close of the age."

The Trinity is among the most profound & mysterious of all Catholic beliefs; yet it is solidly biblical [can the Koran be doubted?]…

Jn. 3: 14-17 “But John stayed him, saying: I ought to be baptized by thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering, said to him: Suffer it to be so now. For so it becometh us to fulfill all justice. And Jesus [GOD THE SON] being baptized, forthwith came out of the water: and lo, the heavens were opened to him: and he saw the Spirit of God [GOD THE HS] descending as a dove, and coming upon him. And behold a voice from heaven, saying: This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased [GOD THE FATHER]… all 3 “persons” in one place at one time. And accounts of each are numerous in the NT

Wish we had more space. Look forward to your reply.

Blessings,
Partick


#229

My Friend, I disagree:smiley:

One Can KNOW OF God without actually knowing God.

By reason one can KNOW OF God; BUT NOT presume to actually KNOW-God

Regards
Patrick


#230

OK, we’re not communicating here:smiley:

So please share with us what it is YOU think you can know about God by human logic alone.

Regards
Patrick


#231

My friend, your description of ALLAH falls far short of a correct one for God.

Further, I [Me here] don’t see where logic alone can attribute all of the attributes you shared for Allah.

Regards,
Patrick


#232

Wow that is easy to do.

Blessings,
Partick


#233

This is in regards to what?


#234

@JonNC Ah, I had a feeling that I may have misunderstood what you were asking me. But, it turns out that you had missed my point after all. I say reason, yet you mention scripture. Keep saying, citing. quoting, etc. scripture at every non Christian, regardless of what they’re actually saying.


#235

You’re right. I’m still missing the part where you know what is “necessarily known” about God in general, but Christians don’t.
Perhaps you can elaborate on it.


#236

@PJM Yes, I meant that one can know of God in general by reason alone, but one cannot know of God in detail by reason alone. I used the phrase “know about” quite a few times. Do you believe one can know of God in general by reason alone? Which would be coming to know of His existence, His pre-eternality, His endurance, His self subsistence, His dissimilarity to contingent things, His oneness, His life, His knowledge, His power, His will, all from reason alone?


#237

No…


#238

If you actually believe that we cannot know of God in general by reason alone, then you may as well believe in a fairy tale, because every other religion more or less claim they possess the truth, and you reject reason (which is common to all able men) as the primary arbiter to distinguish between truth and falsehood.


#239

Patrick, I read just some more of your replies to me. I’ve actually been on CAF for awhile. Please do not assume what I do and do not know about Catholicism. When I first joined I was an ex Muslim who wanted to become Catholic, but eventually I regained my faith in Islam.


#240

Thanks for the reply,

By Knowing “of” God, in MY understanding, does not necessarily, or even likely likely to know as much as your attribute to knowing God. Knowing God in an absolute sense requires cooperation with His grace, and grace can be, and very often is rejected.

Regards
Patrick


#241

Then My friend, you missed out on the opportunity for TRUTH, which can only be singular per defined issie.

BENEDICT XVI
Benedict says: “If we omit the truth, what do we do anything for?”
“Their cannot be your truth and my truth or there would be no truth”

FATHER HARDON, one f the most esteemed theologians of the 20th Century} taught this about TRUTH:

“Truth is the condition of grace, it is the source of grace, it is the channel of grace, it is the divinely ordained requirement of grace.” ….Father was a friend and occasional mentor of mine.

Ps.145 Verses 17 to 18 “
[17] The LORD is just in all his ways, and kind in all his doings. [18] The LORD is near to all who call upon him, to all who call upon him in truth.

Dictionary Definition of “Truth”

  1. The true or actual state of a matter:
    conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement
  2. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like mathematical truths.
  3. the state or character of being true.
  4. actuality or actual existence.
  5. an obvious or accepted fact; truism; platitude.
  6. honesty; integrity; truthfulness.
  7. (often initial capital letter) ideal or fundamental reality apart from and
    transcending perceived experience:
  8. agreement with a standard or original.
    9… accuracy, as of position or adjustment.
  9. Archaic. Fidelity or constancy. End quotes

In Georges Bernanos’ Diary of a Country Priest, the elderly Curé de Torcy gives his young priest friend a bit of advice about proclaiming the Gospel: “The Word of God is a red-hot iron,” he says**. “Truth is meant to save you first, and the comfort comes later.”**

SEEK truth not convenience friend

Regards
Patrick


#242

My friend, is their a reason you choose not to answer the questions I asked of you in my lengthy reply?

Regards
Patrick


#243

Reason by itself is blinded by the fallen condition of human beings. It is the Holy Ghost that, by grace, brings us to knowledge of God. By hearing the word, being Baptized, etc.


#244

Well; first off my parents are Catholics. They can only tell me the reason why is that dad likes the way it makes him feel and mom says that is how she was raised. I read one post here claiming the Bible is a Catholic book. NOT. The “Bible” is a collection of books which are very Jewish in their authorship. Yes, Catholics were used as a tool by God to pull these books together. And yes there are Catholics that are “Christians”. I’ve been studying the Catechism as well as the instruction in missals, and other authors late and current. There are many many reasons I am not Catholic i.e. Christmas, Easter, Sunday solemnity, innate immortality, purgatory, idolatry. And that is just some of it. What do I admire in Catholics? Their devotion and dedication; the real ones. It’s very easy to lay claim to Christianity, quite another to “be” so.


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