Why are you so mean?


#1

I am Catholic, sixteen years old, Michigander, and have about two and a half years of actual study. I have no choice but to forgive those of you who don’t take me seriously. Even so, I feel like I have to give a lot of you a lesson in evangelization:

The whole purpose of evangelization is to win your neighbor, not the argument. Even if you prove somebody wrong, they are not going to want to be come Catholic if your attitude is “I’m right, you’re wrong. Ha. Now, convert!” Socrates thought that we were purely rational, that if we knew something was bad for us we would not do it. As much as I love him, he was wrong on this point. If you have ever eaten chocolate, you cannot agree with Socrates here.

If you feel yourself getting frustrated and fed up, it is time to stop. You aren’t going to get any more polite this way.

You cannot expect your opposition to have an open mind unless you do. I am sick of people accusing others of being close-minded. They are saying the same about you. Listen to what they are saying and respond politely, even if you’ve already said the same thing six times in a row. Don’t be scared to open your mind. You know Catholicism is the truth, so open your mind and trust that reason will always bring you home.

Don’t call your opposition close-minded, or stupid, or ignorant, or deaf, or blind. This makes you look close-minded, stupid, ignorant, deaf, blind, and arrogant. We have had enough people acting idiotically (some renaissance clergy, etc.) to embarrass the Church. We do not need any more.

Above all, realize that whoever your opposition is, they are trying to find a reason or an excuse not to believe Catholicism (just as you are constantly trying to find a reason or an excuse not to believe Lutheranism or Islam or atheism). Don’t let them find that excuse in you. Pray and ask God not to let you say anything stupid. And, if you say something stupid anyway, apologize, and if you say something contrary to Catholic teaching, recant.

You will not get anywhere unless you remember that God loves atheists. God loves Protestants. God loves Muslims.

God loves them. Why can’t you?

Now, if you think this is all a good idea, then telling me so will not do you a bit of good. You have to actually use advice for it to be helpful.


#2

You have restored my hope for the future! Thank you. I will do my best to apply your wisdom in my own life.

Malia


#3

Well said


#4

:clapping: Well put.


#5

[quote=cardenio]I am Catholic, sixteen years old, Michigander, and have about two and a half years of actual study. I have no choice but to forgive those of you who don’t take me seriously. Even so, I feel like I have to give a lot of you a lesson in evangelization:

The whole purpose of evangelization is to win your neighbor, not the argument. Even if you prove somebody wrong, they are not going to want to be come Catholic if your attitude is “I’m right, you’re wrong. Ha. Now, convert!” Socrates thought that we were purely rational, that if we knew something was bad for us we would not do it. As much as I love him, he was wrong on this point. If you have ever eaten chocolate, you cannot agree with Socrates here.

If you feel yourself getting frustrated and fed up, it is time to stop. You aren’t going to get any more polite this way.

You cannot expect your opposition to have an open mind unless you do. I am sick of people accusing others of being close-minded. They are saying the same about you. Listen to what they are saying and respond politely, even if you’ve already said the same thing six times in a row. Don’t be scared to open your mind. You know Catholicism is the truth, so open your mind and trust that reason will always bring you home.

Don’t call your opposition close-minded, or stupid, or ignorant, or deaf, or blind. This makes you look close-minded, stupid, ignorant, deaf, blind, and arrogant. We have had enough people acting idiotically (some renaissance clergy, etc.) to embarrass the Church. We do not need any more.

Above all, realize that whoever your opposition is, they are trying to find a reason or an excuse not to believe Catholicism (just as you are constantly trying to find a reason or an excuse not to believe Lutheranism or Islam or atheism). Don’t let them find that excuse in you. Pray and ask God not to let you say anything stupid. And, if you say something stupid anyway, apologize, and if you say something contrary to Catholic teaching, recant.

You will not get anywhere unless you remember that God loves atheists. God loves Protestants. God loves Muslims.

God loves them. Why can’t you?

Now, if you think this is all a good idea, then telling me so will not do you a bit of good. You have to actually use advice for it to be helpful.
[/quote]

I have to say that you are one amazing 16 year-old. I hope there are many more like you out there.


#6

:amen:


#7

[quote=cardenio]I am Catholic, sixteen years old, Michigander, and have about two and a half years of actual study. I have no choice but to forgive those of you who don’t take me seriously. Even so, I feel like I have to give a lot of you a lesson in evangelization:

The whole purpose of evangelization is to win your neighbor, not the argument. Even if you prove somebody wrong, they are not going to want to be come Catholic if your attitude is “I’m right, you’re wrong. Ha. Now, convert!” Socrates thought that we were purely rational, that if we knew something was bad for us we would not do it. As much as I love him, he was wrong on this point. If you have ever eaten chocolate, you cannot agree with Socrates here.

If you feel yourself getting frustrated and fed up, it is time to stop. You aren’t going to get any more polite this way.

You cannot expect your opposition to have an open mind unless you do. I am sick of people accusing others of being close-minded. They are saying the same about you. Listen to what they are saying and respond politely, even if you’ve already said the same thing six times in a row. Don’t be scared to open your mind. You know Catholicism is the truth, so open your mind and trust that reason will always bring you home.

Don’t call your opposition close-minded, or stupid, or ignorant, or deaf, or blind. This makes you look close-minded, stupid, ignorant, deaf, blind, and arrogant. We have had enough people acting idiotically (some renaissance clergy, etc.) to embarrass the Church. We do not need any more.

Above all, realize that whoever your opposition is, they are trying to find a reason or an excuse not to believe Catholicism (just as you are constantly trying to find a reason or an excuse not to believe Lutheranism or Islam or atheism). Don’t let them find that excuse in you. Pray and ask God not to let you say anything stupid. And, if you say something stupid anyway, apologize, and if you say something contrary to Catholic teaching, recant.

You will not get anywhere unless you remember that God loves atheists. God loves Protestants. God loves Muslims.

God loves them. Why can’t you?

Now, if you think this is all a good idea, then telling me so will not do you a bit of good. You have to actually use advice for it to be helpful.
[/quote]

Bravo, :clapping: I hope that others will read your message and take it to heart!!!


#8

I just spent the last hour or so reading a ton of anti-Catholic stuff on the web. And of course got very angry. Then I came here and read your post. It was just what I needed. :slight_smile:


#9

[quote=cardenio]…Don’t call your opposition close-minded, or stupid, or ignorant, or deaf, or blind. This makes you look close-minded, stupid, ignorant, deaf, blind, and arrogant…
[/quote]

With no disrespect intended, I would add: don’t call your opposition mean, either. This makes you look mean and arrogant.


#10

first post i read this morning… good way to start the day… the week…
the year…

thanks…

:slight_smile:


#11

Best Post Ever!!


#12

**Well said, you gave me the chills.!

I do love all people, when I debate I keep in mind, that God loves them too and he is the only judge.

Most of the people I know are non-denominational, baptist, Jews, I could go on, however because I disagree with them, does not mean I dont love them as my brother.

Sara**


#13

Socrates thought that we were purely rational, that if we knew something was bad for us we would not do it. As much as I love him, he was wrong on this point. If you have ever eaten chocolate, you cannot agree with Socrates here.

While I understand your intent with what you said, and agree with that intention, I think we need to understand why some people will not accept the truth no matter how well it is presented. The mean reason is fear, but there are many others, as well.

As you cited regarding the flaw in Socrates proposition, people do not always want what is best for them but rather what makes them feel good. No one can argue with feelings, which is what some attempting apologetics try to do with a simple presentation of the truth and get frustrated when that alone doesn’t bring the results they hoped for.

You are so right that this does not work in those not ready to receive the truth. This is why apologetics is a ministry not just an exercise in debate. Something we should all keep firmly in mind when trying to explain the truths of the faith to those for whom it is foreign to the point of absurdity.


#14

Great minds think alike… Great job!


#15

chocolate is bad for us???:crying:


#16

Very wise words, cardenio – I think we can all learn a lesson here.

[quote=LSK]chocolate is bad for us???:crying:
[/quote]

Only if you eat too much of it! (Unless you’re allergic, then any amount is too much. :slight_smile: )

Crazy Internet Junkies Society
Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Thread


#17

cardenio,

As many have said here, if you are the future I know I need not be afraid. I can’t count the times I’ve tried to make this argument, but you have made it so beautifully and clearly.

We have to constantly remember that when we take the wounded eternal soul of one of God’s children into our hands we will have to answer for how we treat that soul. This is not our work to puff up our ego; this is the most serious of God’s work for which we can only be “channels of His peace” as St Francis put it. As such, we cannot allow our egos and attitudes to get in the way of His message.

It takes 3 conditions for a message to get through: the Grace from God to prepare us; a willingness on our part to accept that grace and listen with an open mind and heart; and a gentle messenger. Since we all carry our psychological baggage, it is always encumbent on the messenger to sincerely have the best interests of the listener in mind and present the message in a respectful, loving way. If it isn’t, the grace and preparation are likely not to be enough.

Cheers to you cardenio; you show wisdom I seldom see in people 3 times your physical age. :clapping:


#18

Proud to be a fellow Michigander…and from the same Diocese!

Thanks for the reminder, cardenio.


#19

[quote=Joseph Bilodeau]With no disrespect intended, I would add: don’t call your opposition mean, either. This makes you look mean and arrogant.
[/quote]

Read the message here. She is tired of it!!! I just can’t believe how there is so much positive in this message and then there is always someone who looks for the negative. This person does not look mean or arrogant in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM!!!


#20

I agree with the OP, People should be charitable and patient. Then again the debate is a food group on any web forum. I have a feeling it’s better to not get fed up with it and just try and be an example.

-D


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